tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133586112024-03-07T22:16:58.876-06:00RHOBLOGYWhoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. (1 Peter 4:11)Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comBlogger1424125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-68558850032199669902017-12-27T04:43:00.002-06:002017-12-27T04:43:30.351-06:00Recent Debates on QallOutI have been debating recently on QallOut.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.qallout.com/u/rhology" target="_blank">Find the debates here</a>.<br />
<br />
Also, <a href="https://www.qallout.com/debate/4177-is-christianity-the-only-answer-to-a-meaningful-life-and-the-only-path-to-an-eternal-afterlife" target="_blank">this one</a> didn't find its way onto the list at my QO profile.Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-89888907361099130732017-11-17T06:04:00.004-06:002017-11-17T06:04:33.162-06:00A Biblical Case Against Open BordersPosted at <a href="https://steemit.com/immigration/@rhology/a-biblical-case-against-open-borders" target="_blank">my Steemit</a>.Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-31708435903559988862017-10-05T16:57:00.003-05:002017-10-05T16:57:56.569-05:00"ALL lefties have always been for closed borders."I am probably going to post any further blog writings at Steemit.<br />
<br />Here is the first offering, a preview of my upcoming immigration article.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://steemit.com/immigration/@rhology/all-lefties-have-always-been-for-closed-borders">https://steemit.com/immigration/@rhology/all-lefties-have-always-been-for-closed-borders</a>Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-52112559180998662512017-05-25T03:23:00.001-05:002017-05-25T03:23:57.343-05:00Tony Miano Repents (?) of AngerTony Miano <a href="http://crossencountersmin.com/featured-article/testimony-gods-amazing-grace-angry/" target="_blank">says he is walking in repentance</a> of unrighteous and consistent anger. Let's just say it comes as no surprise that he has had anger problems for years. I am glad he acknowledges it as sin, but as far as whether the repentance is real and/or anywhere near complete, color me hopeful but unpersuaded. One need only check <a href="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com.es/search/label/Tony%20Miano" target="_blank">the archives</a> of this very blog to see his devolution over the course of time, from one perspective.<br />
<div>
<div>
<br /></div>
For his sake, I definitely hope it's true. One reason I'm not
optimistic it actually is true is the way he characterises what happened
when he moved to Iowa. <br /><br /><i>"a man who was once a close friend began a relentless and vicious attack against me and Pastor Mike Reid."</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.biblicalchurchevangelism.org/2016/09/09/bad-worse-tony-miano-mike-reid-exporting-moral-theological-madness-africa/" target="_blank">Here is the "attack"</a> Miano references. He still apparently doesn't understand that calls to repentance are not
attacks. That makes me think that his repentance is either fake or
incomplete. He hasn't begun to apologise to any abolitionists,
so I'm very skeptical. </div>
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<br /></div>
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Given what is known about this Mike Reid fellow, I certainly hope that Miano's new soft and loving side isn't due to any weird stuff on Reid's part or any funny business going on with any of Miano's female family members. I wish I were joking.</div>
Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-91912856429508691612017-05-21T08:57:00.001-05:002017-05-21T08:57:36.745-05:00Vox Day Thinks My Death Is ImminentThe occasionally-interesting bloggings of Vox Day attract my attention from time to time. This post caught my eye the other day and was so beyond the pale of biblical reasoning and human decency that engagement in the combox proved too attractive a proposition to resist.<br />
<br />
Vox Day and his Alt-Right/Alt-White/Alt-Whight crowd let slip their racial superiority every so often in a clear and unambiguous way. It isn't just <a href="https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjpiuzGj4HUAhXEqxoKHfbKBdIQFghCMAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tsowell.com%2FRednecks.htm&usg=AFQjCNG6rZ5JqB6gxt6dnTZVTtIjSogapQ&sig2=IHeFWaLbwNke2yY2uU8jPw" target="_blank">Black Redneck Culture</a> they (rightly) despise. It's that they think that the white ETHNICITY is superior in ways that make segregation essential and wise and miscegenation a sin.<br />
<br />
So... apparently a white couple rescuing brown babies from their frozen In Vitro Fertilisation incarceration or from perpetual orphanage is a good reason to mock and accuse of the made-up crime of "cuckery" anyone whose heart is moved by mercy. And my willingness to speak up in opposition to such mockery <a href="http://voxday.blogspot.com.es/2017/05/new-heights-of-cuckery.html?commentPage=2#c7780046442952166270" target="_blank">means this</a>:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<b>I'm thankful at least that anyone reviewing this thread will see who is full of hate and who is full of mercy. Y'all are making it easily visible.</b><br /><br />As are you. You won't survive long once the killing season begins. There will be no mercy for your kind.</blockquote>
I paste here <a href="http://voxday.blogspot.com.es/2017/05/new-heights-of-cuckery.html?commentPage=2#c679277980860851491" target="_blank">my response</a> in particular, but the conversation throughout the combox was interesting and enlightening enough that it may indeed merit review.<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
1) You don't even know "my kind". All you know is that I take seriously the many biblical commands to love neighbor and to rescue the fatherless from death because we live in a culture of death.<br />While we're on the subject, though, you Alt-Whight folks keep focusing on one symptom of the problem (with dubious substantiation) rather than taking an axe to the root, which is our society's wholesale denial of Jesus' kingship. You're like "hey we don't want OUR (white) PEOPLE to die" and yet white people are doing a way better job at killing themselves off through child sacrifice than any Muslim invasion ever could.<br /><br />2) I am well aware that followers of Jesus are promised that death is a very realistic consequence of their allegiance.<br />And while I'm on THAT topic, y'all are not followers of Jesus. You can mock "(((Judeo-Christ)))" all you want; you'd be smeared in a debate on the topic. It would be zero contest. But OTOH it would be fun and educational. Fun for me, destroying you on the topic of "Alt-Whight is essentially biblical", and educational for errbody else, to see a white-skinned, red-bearded, happily married (to a white woman, since y'all care so much about that) (LOL), monogamous, anti-big government, street preaching Christian abolitionist reconstructionist wipe the rhetorical floor with a proponent of the Alt-Whight position. Educational, because in the minds of many, we are of a kind. But we aren't. You are on the side of the Muslim invaders - you serve the Devil, and I serve the Risen Lord Jesus Christ.<br /><br />3) I couldn't care less that you think I'd be among the first to be killed in some sort of societal overthrow. Maybe I would be; the Bible believer remembers that eternal treasure lasts a lot longer than the food, gold bullion, and ammo in your bunker. And my Lord and Savior is a lot closer a friend than your militia.<br /><br />God have mercy on all of you. Do not mock God. </blockquote>
Such a debate would indeed by quite illuminating, yet for all their bravado, I don't expect any of the so-called "Dread Ilk" to show up for it. All their courage is illusory and based on imagined superiority. Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-87583284009945287472017-05-01T04:50:00.001-05:002017-05-01T04:50:25.939-05:00Chick tractsSome abolitionists recently wondered aloud whether Chick tracts are good to use. Here are my thoughts, which can succinctly be expressed in two words: No, no.<br />
<br />
1) They feed into the sinner's prayer mentality.<br /><br />
2) They consciously teach KJV Onlyism.<br />
<br />3) The main message of at least two of their tracts is how the KJV is the only legit Bible and all the other ones are evil.<br /><br />
4) Thus when you buy Chick tracts you perpetuate KJV Only ism.<br /><br />
5) And you also perpetuate and reinforce their fundamentalism which is quite literally anti-abolition, for it is a call to remove oneself from the world and take shelter under the pastor and the local church.<br /><br />
6) And if anyone takes a Chick tract and should like it and think "this is good stuff", they would probably have thought the same about a tract that was actually good, and additionally now they might go looking for more Chick materials and fall under IFB sway.<br /><br />
7) The drawings of demons are more like children's Halloween costumes and their conversations are exactly what I'd expect in a 1950's era KJV only IFB church. Pretty much nothing like actual demons.<br /><br />
8) The storylines are clearly trying to be edgy, but, again, 1950s fundy kitsch. They're cheesy and laughable.<br /><br />
9) Thus you educate the culture on what Christians think is actually quality material. If you are handing these out, you are saying "This is material I believe in, and you should too", and so what else are unbelievers supposed to interact with and engage?<br />Personal anecdote - on a bus in Madrid two weeks ago, I glanced to my right and saw a guy looking up chick dot com on his cell phone. He got off at the same stop as me so once off the bus I intro'd myself and asked him if he was an evangelist, b/c I'm one and am looking for teammates. He said that he is anti-creationist and is into comic books as well, and he uses material he finds on tracts to prepare material counter to creationism.<br />...<br />dot dot dot<br />dramatic pause<br /><br />So this educated cosmopolitan Spaniard wants to destroy creationism, and the best resources he can find to champion Bible ideas is Jack freaking Chick. It's disgusting and shameful. Chick is a placeholder for actual apologetics, and when people hand out Chick, they are NOT handing out GOOD material that they COULD be handing out.<br /><br />10) Chick tracts are demonstrably inaccurate in numerous of their anti-Rome tracts. The stuff about how much of the Roman Mass is a direct derivative of Babylonian mystery religion and stuff is dubious at best, and it's not even close to a strong argument against Romish theology. Further, it's needlessly offensive to Romanists.<br />
<br />11) A very substantial number of their tracts pictorially represent God the Father, giving Him a vaguely human form, thus violating the 2nd commandment. God the Father doesn't look anything like that. How do I know? Because He doesn't "look like" ANYTHING. He dwells in unapproachable light, Whom no man has seen - 1 Timothy 6.<br />
<br />12a) I repeat that you could be giving out good material, but if you choose to give out garbage, you are neglecting the good you could be doing. <br />12b) For cheaper than Chick, you can print out tracts that I wrote myself - I'll give you the file for free. <br />For prices comparable to Chick, you can get AHAGear quads.<br />For decent tracts that are 100% free, check out <a href="http://www.wmpress.org/read-booklet/booklets-available/">http://www.wmpress.org/read-booklet/booklets-available/</a><br /><br />There are no excuses for Chick tracts. I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble. If you should find one in public, take it for yourself but don't leave for anyone else to find, is my suggestion. Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-63960664526491192882017-04-21T06:25:00.001-05:002020-01-09T09:42:19.022-06:00The Authority of the (Local) Church, Part 1The assertion that churches or church leaders carry authority is common among today's Reformedigelical establishment, and, interestingly, is used in much the same way as papist* and conciliarist** plebeians and their overlords/hierarchs to support their claims and counter-claims of ecclesiastical ascendancy. For as much noise as modern Western Reformedigelicals like to make about the Protestant Reformation, their incessant references to "the authority of the (local) church" and "the authority of the elders" when poked in <i>just</i> the right spot and when divorced from a context of engaging in apologetics against papists and conciliarists can be very disturbing, as in doing so they much resemble papist and conciliarist opponents of the Reformation. Are these claims to "authority" and such biblically justified?<br />
<br />
In assessing this question, two important questions must be dealt with:<br />
1) Does the Bible employ the <b>word</b> "authority", and if so, how?<br />
2) Does the Bible employ the <b>concept</b> of authority, and if so, how?<br />
<br />
The intent of this article is to examine the first question mostly and the second in some ways, leaving more of the second for a later time. Let us examine the words and their contexts that are translated using "authority" or similar words, or which are claimed to express the teaching that "authority" rests in elders/churches and should be exercised in the way that it is claimed they can and should exercise it. Let us begin our examination in this article with Strong's number 1849 - <a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1849&t=NASB" target="_blank"><i>exousia</i> (ἐξουσία)</a>. The word is used over 100 times in the New Testament and the KJV translates it with "power" in two-thirds of its occurrences. During my own survey of each occurrence in its context, my classification is that the words are used to express the following ideas:<br />
<ol>
<li>Apostles have authority to cast out demons</li>
<li>Authority in a confusing sense (from 1 Corinthians 11:10)</li>
<li>Authority in a general sense</li>
<li>Authority in a household, slaves</li>
<li>Authority in the sense of rulers</li>
<li>Become children of God</li>
<li>God has authority</li>
<li>Jesus has authority</li>
<li>Liberty</li>
<li>Military/governmental authority</li>
<li>Paul has authority to build up</li>
<li>Power in a general sense</li>
<li>Power of apostles to impart the Holy Spirit</li>
<li>Power of darkness</li>
<li>Right in a general sense </li>
</ol>
It is outside the scope of this article to attempt to forward more specific details than these about this word. Suffice it to say that G1849 is actually never used in reference to anything remotely related to church or so-called church officers possessing "authority". The closest categories to this concept would seem to be the fact that the apostles possessed authority/power to impart the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:19, the only NT occurrence in this category) and the fact that the Apostle Paul possessed authority to build up believers (2 Corinthians 10:8, 13:10). This latter point is of course useless to the modern authoritarian unless paired with a robust doctrine of apostolic succession whereby Paul's authority transfers through the generations to 21st-century church officers.<br />
<br />
Thus "<i>exousia</i>" gives no support whatsoever to the concept of "church authority" but this is merely the end of the beginning. Let us move now to other NT words that use the same root and deal in similar ideas.<br />
<br />
<h3>
Don't Be Like the Rulers of the Gentiles: Matthew and Mark</h3>
Matthew 20:25-28 -<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it (<a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2634&t=NASB" target="_blank"><i>G2634 - katakyrieuō</i>, κατακυριεύω</a>) over them, and their great men exercise authority (<a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2715&t=NASB" target="_blank"><i>G2715 - katexousiazō</i>, κατεξουσιάζω</a>) over them. It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”</blockquote>
Mark 10:42-45 -<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Calling them to Himself, Jesus said to them, “You know that those who are recognized as rulers of the Gentiles lord it (<a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2634&t=NASB" target="_blank"><i>G2634 - katakyrieuō</i>, κατακυριεύω</a>) over them; and their great men exercise authority (<a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2715&t=NASB" target="_blank"><i>G2715 - katexousiazō</i>, κατεξουσιάζω</a>) over them. But it is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant; and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”</blockquote>
Note how the second word (2715) of interest in this pericope has as its root <i>exousia</i>. Here, in the context of inter-Christian relationship, the Lord Jesus instructs His apostles that their posture toward each other is <b>not</b> to be like that of the Gentile rulers, who lord it over and exercise authority over the peons. This is a very important point. Whatever these words mean, they characterise the <b>precise opposite</b> of the way in which Christians are to act toward each other.<br />
<br />
Given that, the first word (2634) enriches our understanding even more, as the other two NT occurrences are Acts 19:17 and 1 Peter 5:3.<br />
In Acts 19:17, the possessed man engages in <i>katakyrieuō</i> against (the NASB renders this "subdued") the seven sons of Sceva.<br />
1 Peter 5:1-4 is even more interesting:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Therefore, I exhort the <strike>elders</strike> older men among you, as your fellow <strike>elder</strike> (older man) and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; nor yet as lording it over (<i>katakyrieuō</i>) those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. You younger men, likewise, be subject to your <strike>elders</strike> older men; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for "God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble".</blockquote>
First, a note on the way I have rendered the passage using "<strike>elders</strike> older men": the NASB like other translations is inconsistent in its treatment of the Greek word used there, and interestingly translates it with more honesty in 1 Timothy 5:1, where, just as here in 1 Peter 5, the author is drawing a parallel between how those of differing <b>ages</b> ought to act with respect to each other, rather than indicating some sort of ecclesiastical official relationship. The NASB correctly indicates the fact that the passage is referring to older men vs younger men and older women vs younger women. 1 Peter 5 likewise mentions younger men, and with no other contextual mandate to change the translation, the English rendering ought to be consistent; thus "older men".<br />
<br />
This passage is often appealed to, however, by authoritarians as a prooftext for the authority of elders. They point to words like "shepherd" and "oversight", which deserve attention at some later point in time. For now, though, let us note that in this passage supposedly about "elder authority", Peter specifically <b>declines to bolster</b> such a notion, reminding the reader about how the Lord Jesus told him and the other eleven that "it is not this way among you". They do not exercise authority among Christians. So whatever "oversight" and "shepherd" mean in this context, if anyone should assert that they have anything to do with "authority", they have all their work in front of them. Peter uses the very word that Jesus used and which carries a strong relation to the word most clearly translatable into English as "authority", and denies that is what anyone ought to be doing. As a helpful reminder, he drops an Old Testament quote, commanding all to be humble rather than proud, for allocating oneself authority is most unquestionably an exercise in pride, especially when Jesus kept saying stuff like "serve others", "don't take the best seats", "it is better to serve than to be served", and "don't call other people 'Father'".<br />
<br />
<h3>
Don't Be Like the Rulers of the Gentiles: Luke</h3>
Luke 22:25-27 -<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
(Jesus) said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over (<a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2961&t=NASB" target="_blank">G2961 - <i>kyrieuō</i>, κυριεύω</a>) them; and those who have authority over (<a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1850&t=NASB" target="_blank">G1850 -<i> exousiazō</i>, ἐξουσιάζω</a>) them are called ‘Benefactors.’ But it is not this way with you, but the one who is the greatest among you must become like the youngest, and the leader like the servant. For who is greater, the one who reclines at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at the table? But I am among you as the one who serves."</blockquote>
Note basically the same words are used in this passage, in a slightly different form. They are used elsewhere in the NT, though, so let us take a look.<br />
<br />
2961 is used in the following texts:<br />
<ul>
<li>Romans 6:14 - For sin shall not be <b>master over</b> you, for you are not under law but under grace.</li>
<li>Romans 7:1 - Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has <b>jurisdiction over</b> a person as long as he lives?</li>
<li>Romans 14:9 - For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be <b>Lord</b> both of the dead and of the living.</li>
<li>2 Corinthians 1:24 - Not that we <b>lord it over</b> your faith, but are workers with you for your joy; for in your faith you are standing firm.</li>
<li>1 Timothy 6:15 - which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of <b>lords</b>...</li>
</ul>
1850 (reminder: the same root word as 1849, <i>exousia</i>) is used in:<br />
<ul>
<li>1Co 6:12 - All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be <b>mastered</b> by anything.<br />
1 Co 7:4 - The wife does not have <b>authority over</b> her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have <b>authority over</b> his own body, but the wife does.</li>
</ul>
What do we see from this passage in Luke 22? Whatever it looks like to be mastered by sin, to be under the jurisdiction of the law, to be under the Lord Jesus, and whatever it looks like to have authority over the body of one's spouse is the <b>opposite</b> of how any Christian ought to relate to any other Christian, according to Luke 22. Note also how 2 Corinthians 1:24 contains Paul's explicit denial that he would act this way toward anyone else - Paul, an apostle of the Lord who wrote half the New Testament.<br />
<br />
Note also Jesus' reference to the disingenuous way in which Gentile overlords demand to be addressed. He says they insist on being called "Benefactors", just like authoritarians insist on disingenuously referring to their ideas of elders/pastors as "servant leaders" and simultaneously demanding that all acknowledge the authority of the same to tell the Christians under them how to believe and how to act.<br />
<br />
<h3>
"With All (Commandment)" - Titus 2</h3>
Another candidate for the distinction of authoritarian prooftext is Titus 2:15, which verse the NASB renders thus:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority (<a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2003&t=NASB" target="_blank">G2003 - <i>epitagē</i>, ἐπιταγή</a>). Let no one disregard you.</blockquote>
Let us examine the way the NASB renders the other NT occurrences of this Greek word. <br />
<ul>
<li>Romans 16:26 - but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the <b>commandment</b> of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;</li>
<li>1 Corinthians 7:6 - But this I say by way of concession, not of <b>command</b>.</li>
<li>1 Corinthians 7:25 - Now concerning virgins I have no <b>command</b> of the Lord, but I give an opinion as one who by the mercy of the Lord is trustworthy.</li>
<li>2 Corinthians 8:8 - I am not speaking this as a <b>command</b>, but as proving through the earnestness of others the sincerity of your love also.</li>
<li>1 Timothy 1:1 - Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the <b>commandment</b> of God our Savior, and of Christ Jesus, who is our hope,</li>
<li>Titus 1:3 - but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the <b>commandment</b> of God our Savior,</li>
<li>Titus 2:15 - These things speak and exhort and reprove with all <b>authority</b>. Let no one disregard you.</li>
</ul>
It is unclear how such a verse buttresses the position against which we are arguing here. Notice first how Titus is specially designated for the task in Crete by the Apostle Paul because of a specific situation - a domination of false teachers and widespread confusion about the actual content of the apostolic message. Titus was given particular authority --yes, authority-- for this mission, by a guy who actually has authority (and yet still disdained using it to lord it over people - see above comments on 2 Corinthians 1:24) by virtue of being a legitimate prophet of God during a time when people were receiving prophetic revelation to write Scripture. But nobody's pastor today was given authority by a prophet, very few modern situations are particularly analogous to Titus' in Crete, and even if they are, the argument still falls apart because Titus was supposed to correct doctrine with the tool of the apostolic message, not make stuff up from his own "authority" - delegated authority to repeat what God has already said. Thus the authority crucially rests in the <b>message</b>, not the <b>messenger</b>.<br />
<br />
Further, "with all authority" is a pretty questionable way to render a word that six other times was translated as "command(ment)". It is even more questionable when one remembers that the same word is translated "commandment" in Titus 1:5. The problem is not that there is some enormous difference between the concept of "commandment" and "authority" or that "authority" wouldn't also fit in Titus 1:5. The problem is that the idea the word expresses is not what the modern ecclesiastical authoritarians mean when they say "church authority". Thus a misleading translation leads to poor conclusions that actually contradict other passages that are not poorly translated.<br />
<br />
<h3>
Conclusion</h3>
Thus upon biblical examination, we find the phrases "church authority", "authority of the local church" (which local church, by the way? I always wonder that), and "authority of the pastor(s)/elder(s)" to be without biblical support. The last stands for the authoritarians would seem to be Hebrews 13:17, which passage <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E03A2YhvvNg" target="_blank">is covered in detail here and found to be of no help to the authoritarian position</a>, and 1 Thessalonians 5:13, which uses the word <i>proïstēmi</i> (προΐστημι). I intend to examine this word and its usage in a later article. In the meantime, please stop using those phrases and stick to biblical terminology when discussing these matters. They are too important to either make up terms out of thin air or to use language loaded with such heavy baggage. <i>Ad fontes</i>!<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;"><i><b>*</b>Also known as Roman Catholics, but of course they are not catholic. "Papist" or "Romanist" is a preferable general appellation.</i></span><br />
<span style="font-size: x-small;"><i><b>**</b>Also known as Eastern Orthodox, but of course they are not orthodox. "Conciliarist" or "oriental/eastern conciliarist" is a preferable general appellation.</i></span>Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-57802801661726342682017-03-25T16:13:00.000-05:002017-03-25T16:13:36.669-05:00To Whom the Epistles Were WrittenAn important support of the modern phenomenon of excessive emphasis on visible local churches at the expense of the doctrine of the Invisible Universal Church is the allegation that the epistles of the New Testament were written to visible local churches and thus that the New Testament doesn't make sense without keeping this in mind. "Paul wrote to <b>the (local) church at</b> Corinth/Rome/Colossæ," they say. "That means local churches with identifiable leadership, membership, and schedule," they say. If they're really bold, they throw in "...and street address." Let us examine, though, whether this is actually the case.<br />
<br />
<h3>
TWO KINDS OF PEOPLE, TWO CHURCHES</h3>
The Bible teaches that two kinds of people exist in the world - those who remain in slavery to sin and the devil, darkness, and rebellion, who are headed for Hell, and those who are redeemed, born again, liberated from sin unto slavery to Jesus Christ, repentant, and being sanctified during their lifetimes by the Holy Spirit until the Lord rescues them from this body of death and takes them to repose and later a sure and final victory.<br />
<br />
These in the latter category constitute what is known as The Invisible Universal Church, that <i>ekklesia</i>/assembly/congregation spoken of in passages such as Matthew 16:18, Ephesians 5:23-32, Colossians 1:18 and 24, and 1 Timothy 3:15.<br />
<br />
And when these slaves of Christ gather together, the New Testament also labels that gathering an <i>ekklesia</i>. In a vacuum, that is an obvious sort of thing, for obviously those who have been redeemed from the useless things of this present world would want to fellowship and worship and serve with other believers on a regular basis for many reasons, not the least of which is that the New Testament commands such. But there is a problem - not all who profess slavery to Jesus are indeed His slaves. False conversion and profession are significant enough problems that they merit many mentions in passages such as Matthew 18, 1 Corinthians 5, Galatians, Titus 3, 2 Peter, 1 John 2, and Jude.<br />
<br />
Specifically, 1 John 2:19 informs us:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.</blockquote>
<br />
Galatians 2 explains further:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery—to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.</blockquote>
<br />
False brothers sneak in, sent and inspired by the devil and other fleshly motivations. This is an ubiquitous phenomenon. But how to identify them, and what should be done once they become known?<br />
<br />
<h3>
CONVERGENCE OF THE TWO CHURCHES - DISCIPLINE</h3>
The New Testament describes and prescribes various elements of a process usually labeled church discipline. Those people in whom the spirit of God is at work will indicate by the fruit of their lives and of their professions that they belong to Jesus and not to themselves. But if the fruit is not in accord with the profession of faith in Jesus, the profession is to be considered a false one and the person is to be taught closely, reprimanded, and eventually expelled from the assembly if they continue without repentance. Thus, the spies of the devil, as it were, lose their access and influence among the people who truly do belong to Jesus.<br />
<br />
However, it can take time first to identify, then to gather evidence and bring to bear witnesses, then finally to confront, teach, rebut, and ultimately expel from the fellowship a person who proves by their life and profession to possess an unrepentant spirit. Sometimes these false brothers can even remain concealed for many years, which means that there exists an excellent chance an unregenerate person is gaining and exercising influence in any given local assembly, of which fact Paul and Peter were doubtless aware. <br />
<br />
<h3>
DEPRAVITY</h3>
If these Epistles are written to everyone, both lost and regenerate, then the Apostle Paul is engaging in communication and activity that just doesn't make sense. Do Paul and the Holy Spirit who breathed out His Word through Paul expect unbelievers to act like believers and to be devoted to Christ? Do unbelievers warrant being addressed with passages like these?<br />
<br />
Galatians 3:3-5 -<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain— if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith...?</blockquote>
Do unbelievers hear with faith? Has the Spirit been supplied to them? Have they begun by the Spirit?<br />
<br />
Romans 6:17-18 -<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness...</blockquote>
Romans 8:9 -<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.</blockquote>
This is important because the New Testament describes over and over the fact that people who are not regenerate simply can not submit to God nor even understand his word very well.<br />
<br />
For example, 1 Corinthians 2:14-15 -<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. </blockquote>
These "natural (men)" are otherwise known as outsiders, those whom the Apostle Paul reminds us we are not to judge in the same way nor by the same standard as those inside the church; 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 -<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.</blockquote>
To expect an outsider, a natural man, to grow in holiness and grace, knowledge of the Scripture, and zeal for good works as defined by the Scripture, is a complete category error. Natural men don't even understand much of that, much less desire to be made like Christ in their behavior, priorities, and dealings, so the principal emphasis between Christian and unbeliever must be on repentance, the change of mind and heart that accompanies regeneration by the Holy Spirit, transforming a natural man to a spiritual one. You must be born again.<br />
<br />
Let's turn our attention now to a different angle of this matter.<br />
<br />
<h3>
EXPLICIT GREETINGS</h3>
To whom did the epistolary authors send their letters? Let's find out from their own pens:<br />
<br />
<b>Romans</b> 1:1Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God...7to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.<br />
<br />
<b>1 Corinthians</b> 1:1Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:<br />
3Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.<br />
4I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, 5that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge, 6even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, 7so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.<br />
<br />
<b>2 Corinthians</b> 1:1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia...7and our hope for you is firmly grounded, knowing that as you are sharers of our sufferings, so also you are sharers of our comfort.<br />
<br />
<b>Ephesians</b> 1:1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus.<br />
<br />
<b>Philippians</b> 1:1Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons.<br />
<br />
<b>Colossians</b> 1:1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, 2To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae.<br />
<br />
<b>1 Thessalonians</b> 1:1Paul and Silvanus and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace. 2We give thanks to God always for all of you, making mention of you in our prayers; 3constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father, 4knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you.<br />
<br />
<b>2 Thessalonians</b> 1:1To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: 2Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brethren, as is only fitting, because your faith is greatly enlarged, and the love of each one of you toward one another grows ever greater; 4therefore, we ourselves speak proudly of you among the churches of God for your perseverance and faith in the midst of all your persecutions and afflictions which you endure.<br />
<br />
<b>1 Peter</b> 1:1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood...<br />
<br />
<b>2 Peter</b> 1:1Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ...<br />
<br />
Notice how each letter is sent expressly to people whom the author identifies as born again people. There can be no doubt by the way he describes them each time - saints, faithful, obedient to Jesus, hoping in Jesus, being chosen by God, etc. All these descriptive phrases are indicative of the intended recipients of the letters - the regenerate, people in the Invisible Universal Church. Surely Paul and Peter didn't momentarily forget the concepts related to the natural/unregenerate/lost man and spiritual/regenerate/reborn man dichotomy as they were writing their opening salutations. <br />
<br />
Consider the man who was committing immorality with his father's wife, described in 1 Corinthians 5. He was still part of the local assembly just as much as anyone else at the time Paul wrote the epistle, and that is why Paul had to specifically tell the rest of them to expel him from their midst. So, are verses 4-8 of 1 Corinthians 1 true of this man?<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge, even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.</blockquote>
Was this man enriched in God? Was the testimony concerning Christ confirmed in him? Was he a partaker of spiritual gifts? Was he awaiting eagerly Christ's revelation? Was there any reasonable expectation he would be confirmed at the end and blameless? No! The epistle is partly <b>about </b>this man, not written <b>to</b> him. And he was just as much part of that local church (if you will) as anyone.<br />
<br />
I have omitted Galatians because the opening salutation is so short and the Apostle Paul is clearly engaging in internal debate during the course of the letter as to whether the Galatians are indeed born again, for regenerate people will not ultimately fall prey to deadly heresy and go so far as to deny the very Gospel itself while affirming the sufficiency of the quality and saving power of their own works in the sight of a holy and jealous God, thus revealing they consider the cross of Christ to be devoid of power, a mostly needless gesture on God's part.<br />
<br />
<h3>
WHO IS ADDRESSED</h3>
<br />
Obviously it would be very strange to propose that these epistles are addressing anyone other than true believers. And that's the point here. To address "a local church" like, say, the church at Galatia is to address:<br />
1) some people who were true believers and who were standing firm,<br />
2) some who were true believers but who were wavering (in whom the Spirit of God had not yet brought to completion His work of sanctifying them unto rejection of the false Judaiser gospel),<br />
3) some who appeared to be true believers but who would soon follow after the Judaisers and leave the truth, and<br />
4) the obvious false teachers which were the Judaisers themselves.<br />
<br />
Yet none of the <b>content</b> of the epistle is addressed to the two latter groups. It is <b>about</b> the three latter groups and is only addressed to the two former or at best the three former, the people whom Paul considers to be possibly (or certainly) truly regenerate.<br />
<br />
So, since the epistles are addressed to the regenerate and not the unregenerate, and given that virtually every local church contains some unregenerate people, how can we say that they are written to local churches rather than to the Invisible Universal Church, or if you prefer, to the very people of God no matter where they are?<br />
<br />
Even those who insist that these epistles were written to local churches do not act like it, for they take the commands and proscriptions therein to be applicable across the ages to their own local church context thousands of miles and thousands of years away. They aren't part of the church at Ephesus during the 1st century, yet they read Ephesians 1 and deduce Calvinistic election and Ephesians 5 and infer proper marital roles and 1 Thessalonians 4 and see a teaching about the Rapture. But these letters were not addressed to these modern folks making these deductions!<br />
<br />
<b>Or were they?</b> Did not the Holy Spirit know that they would be read by all, even far removed from the original recipients, by time and distance? Why then did the Holy Spirit take such pains to warn readers of the fact that false conversion is a thing, that false conversion sometimes takes a long time to recognize, and that often it would require significant sacrifice and determination (not to mention painstaking time and procedure) to root it out? And yet He speaks <b>to</b> the regenerate <b>about</b> the unregenerate. Why? Because He intends His message for those who are truly His children, not those who hate His children but are pretending to be His children so they can destroy His children.<br />
<br />
Thus in reality, one who agrees with the argument as laid out in this article holds to a higher doctrine of the church than one who disagrees, for I am denying that God sent such important information as New Testament letters to people who hate Him and deny His Son.Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-60743284344667327392017-03-23T14:29:00.000-05:002017-03-23T14:29:07.559-05:00CARM Recommends Church Repent ExhortationsLet me say this up front - CARM does a lot of good work and is a blessing for the most part to the people of God. And I come here to praise CARM even now!<br />
<br />
On <a href="https://www.carm.org/tracts" target="_blank">CARM's "Tracts" page</a>, they suggest the following: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<a href="https://www.carm.org/tract-church-women-pastors">Tract to pass out at a church regarding women pastors</a> - A free tract, double-sided, 8.5 x 11, to pass out in front of a church that would support and/or have women pastors.</blockquote>
<br />
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgoWXY0j4T_GfOHefiA5_QMTzIS2Wddhja9Dqwvz57dMblX3aow3S3I_ULrE9eAfmUwtBGQUYKWQRfXXYARL3_Qsq7vvWtD_cztA7tpDWjBS_Q0fim9OKvDwn1XflLB8nmvFzsg/s1600/carm1.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="275" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgoWXY0j4T_GfOHefiA5_QMTzIS2Wddhja9Dqwvz57dMblX3aow3S3I_ULrE9eAfmUwtBGQUYKWQRfXXYARL3_Qsq7vvWtD_cztA7tpDWjBS_Q0fim9OKvDwn1XflLB8nmvFzsg/s640/carm1.png" width="640" /></a></div>
<br />
Read that again - <b>to pass out in front of a church</b>. CARM's tract page is offering free resources for Christians to take it upon themselves to defeat misinformation and challenge unbiblical ideas "out in front of a church". There is no way to interpret this suggestion than that they have in mind that a Christian would take a stack of these materials to the sidewalk in front of a church building before, during, or after a "worship service" (most probably Sunday morning) so as to distribute them to the congregants either going in or coming out.<br />
<br />
Which sounds suspiciously like exactly what abolitionists do when exhorting churches during so-called "Church Repent project" activities. <br />
<br />
The page lists no caveats along the lines of checking with elders/pastors/overseers/bishops before taking such radical and visible action. The page does not suggest double-checking whether said church "preaches the Gospel" before taking to the sidewalks in front, dissenting literature in hand. It simply and commendably suggests you download, print, locate, and go. Sounds to me like an excellent idea. But see, plenty of other people (including people associated closely with CARM in many ways) have objected, sometimes vociferously, to abolitionists' exhortation of churches. They say it lies about the church to the world. They say it is divisive. They say it makes abolition into the Gospel. On and on, with objection after objection which we abolitionists have defeated and refuted countless times; it never matters to these people that they have lost the argument. It only matters that they be seen in public standing against such wicked people who want the church to be salt and light. We abolitionists must be stopped!<br /><br />Which is why it's confusing to me that CARM recommends the same thing abolitionists do, but nobody is crawling all over the Interwebz to denounce CARM the same way they denounce abolitionists. One wonders why not.<br />
<br />
One might object:<br />
<i>But a church with women pastors doesn't preach the Gospel!</i><br />
<br />
Such a proposition overlooks five key items:<br />
1) Many churches hold to mutually inconsistent doctrines, where one doctrine is biblically legitimate but another one, simultaneously adhered to, is unbiblical and also, taken to its logical conclusion, vitiates and denies the aforementioned biblical doctrine. One example - the biblical doctrine of the exhaustive knowledge of God of all things, past, present, and future, and the unbiblical doctrine of libertarian free will. A second example - the biblical doctrine of Sola Scriptura and the unbiblical doctrine of ongoing authoritative prophetic revelation. A third example - the biblical doctrine of Sola Scriptura and the unbiblical doctrine of refusing to countenance the possibility that your elders/pastors/overseers might be wrong about something significant. Many people hold to both. They don't even acknowledge or understand that they are at odds. <br />
2) Many of the same objectors to the so-called Church Repent project contend that "preaching the Gospel" signifies that the church in question teaches sola fide and the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, while holding at least to some semblance of substitutionary atonement. Plenty of churches with women pastors teach such. Churches in the charismatic strains are examples of this.<br />
3) One of the major biblical proofs against the idea of women pastors is that the so-called "lists of qualifications" for overseers in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 seem to assume that only men are in view, for it is, admittedly, difficult to imagine how a woman could be the husband of one wife.<br />
Yet male-ness (or, if you will, husband-ness) is merely one of the qualifications in those passages. Many other churches have pastors that are not above reproach, not only-once-married, neither temperate, prudent, hospitable, nor temperate. Many are addicted to wine or pugnacious, many visibly love money, many do not keep their children under control, many are conceited, and many are lousy teachers. What makes female-ness the deal-breaker?<br />
4) This literature is even for churches that "support" women pastors, not just churches that employ them, thus widening the scope even more of but-that-church-preaches-the-Gospel candidates for exhortation.<br />
5) In the vast majority of churches, <a href="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-nature-of-preaching-and-some.html" target="_blank">not a single person has ever preached one single time</a>.<br />
<br />
Now, perhaps nobody or virtually nobody has ever actually followed CARM's recommendations as given on this page, using this downloaded material. If they had done so in a halfway visible manner, especially if they were to leverage social media to publicise and expose their actions to the watching world, perhaps the same folks who gripe about abolitionists' Church Repent actions would use the same criticisms against CARM and those who followed CARM's advice. <br />
<br />
Then again, maybe they would not. You see, this isn't about CARM at all. Again, CARM is giving good advice and providing useful material unto godly actions for Christians to do. As a matter of fact, I'd personally argue that following CARM's recommendations here would be a much better use of time than attending most Sunday morning "worship services". Of course, one could simply take one Sunday per month to spread this propaganda to churches with women pastors while attending Sunday services the other three or four Sundays per month.<br />
<br />
This is about those who complain loudly, demanding to know how abolitionists dare exhort fellow professing Christians outside their church buildings on Sunday mornings to love and take action to protect their preborn neighbors who are being regularly destroyed, 3500 per day, in the United States. Abolitionists are smeared with labels such as "cultist", "apostate", "wicked", "divisive", "Pharisaical", etc for daring to do such a thing, for daring to attempt to disturb the complacent status quo. Yet when CARM suggests doing the same thing vis-a-vis women pastors, nobody says anything. Could this be because there exist double standards in the minds of most critics of the so-called Church Repent project? Because CARM gets some sort of pass in their minds for whatever reason?<br />
<br />
To be consistent, <a href="http://www.ahasandiegocounty.com/an-open-letter-to-james-white.html" target="_blank">James White</a>, <a href="http://blog.abolishhumanabortion.com/search/label/JD%20Hall" target="_blank">Jordan Hall</a>, <a href="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com.es/search/label/Jon%20Speed" target="_blank">Jon Speed</a>, <a href="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com.es/search/label/Marcus%20Pittman" target="_blank">Marcus Pittman</a>, and the other critics of the CR project should call CARM a bunch of wicked divisive apostate cultists Pharisees. All the more because CARM recommends such drastic action as this in the face of what is, let's face it, a minor matter relative to the ongoing slaughter of innocent children in this nation. If it is evil to exhort "Gospel preaching churches" about their abortion apathy, it must be doubly evil to exhort them because their pastor is the wrong sex.<br />
<br />
All this does make me wonder though - what does <a href="http://endabortionnow.com/conference/" target="_blank">Jon Speed</a> <a href="https://youtu.be/Rdzen7V_V50" target="_blank">think of it</a>? When it comes to speaking out against pastrices, I mean, where is the church?Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-56587674270534309762017-03-13T05:56:00.001-05:002017-03-13T05:56:59.651-05:00Interactions With Fred Butler, ShepCon RepentanceAll too predictably, Grace To You employee Fred Butler became very upset when abolitionists suggested out loud that the vast majority of pastors in the United States probably need to repent of abortion apathy on some level, and did so in person just outside the property of his boss' church buildings during the famous <a href="https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=%23shepcon2017" target="_blank">Shepherds' Conference 2017</a>. That's the same church whose buildings thousands attend for Sunday service and which is located less than 10 miles from no less than three abortion facilities with empty sidewalks all 'round them all week long, week after week.<br />
<br />
Let's give credit where due - at least Fred accepted one of the abolitionist pamphlets instead of flatly rejecting them like the majority of church people do. At least he put up the initial impression of wanting to be a Berean. Unfortunately for him (and everyone), the Bereans are praised in Acts 17 not only because they examined the Scriptures but also because they came to correct conclusions regarding the Scriptures they were reading and the oral message the Apostle Paul and his team were delivering. Fred at least gives it a shot but ultimately fails in his alleged quest for biblical accuracy. With respect to the contents of the pamphlet, see <a href="https://hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2017/03/09/reviewing-an-aha-tract/" target="_blank">the review here</a> and <a href="https://kingdomandabolition.com/2017/03/12/guest-post-an-abolitionist-responds-to-grace-to-yous-fred-butler/" target="_blank">an abolitionist reply here</a>.<br />
<br />
In light of the fact that I think it is 51% probable that my comments on <a href="https://www.facebook.com/notes/fred-butler/answering-objections-from-aha/10154498906973775" target="_blank">Fred's relevant note</a> will be deleted, I reproduce the conversation here in which Fred and others discuss their badly skewed and groundless opinions about what AHA is and who abolitionists are. Thankfully, Pulpit & Pen's supposed chief editor (the real chief editor is Jordan Hall), Jeff Maples, stopped by to demonstrate that he, like Jordan, never understood AHA either despite his repeated claims to have been an abolitionist. It's always gratifying when "abolitionists" expose themselves as pro-lifers, ecclesiolaters, and willing deceivers in public so as to reduce the likelihood they deceive anyone else.<br />
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knew nothing of AHA before attending ShepCon. I can tell you as an
objective observer, their tactics made me assume they were a fringe
group, and possibly a cult. If they are neither of these things, they
need to seriously reconsider their tactics.</span></div>
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stood and listened. I walked away when I saw multiple GoPros. In my
experience, the only reason people start conversations while brandishing
GoPros is so that they can have material with which to make themselves
YouTube stars.</span></div>
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is when you actually use a Bible and proclaim a biblically based
message. Citing abortion stats and telling the pastors they are
apathetic needing to repent and embrace AHA is not.</span></div>
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one is under obligation to treat any AHA advocate at a brother. That's
the same whiny attitude all cultist give the orthodox body of believers.</span></div>
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who says you're brothers? Who says those in that video you posted Alan
are brothers? Brothers do not protest biblical churches and biblical
conferences. Brothers do not harass other brothers on the street outside
a biblical conference. And yes it is a protest and you and them will
answer to God for your discord sowing.<br />If you're brothers you will repent of it.<br /><br />You guys are your own worst enemy.</span></div>
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Klussendorf does a lot to inform, educate about abortion. Preaches some
powerful stuff against it. Oddly, a number of AHA people despise the
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YES THEY HAVE - I had one here in Ohio do that multiple times.
While street preaching they told me I was pathetic because I was
apathetic to the cause of ending human suffering in the womb. I asked
if preaching the Gospel is apathy and was told yes. I should
concentrate on ending abortion and then saving the soul of the mother
and father. <br /><br />shake my head ...</span></div>
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would be informed as to what a number of your AHA pals think about
Scott Klussendorf and his feckless compromised pro-life ideas.
Seriously. When you guys have a non-organized non-conference, ask around
randomly.</span></div>
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would be informed as to what a number of your AHA pals think about
Scott Klussendorf and his feckless compromised pro-life ideas.\\<br /><br />You said they "despise" him. I challenge you to find me even one single person who DESPISES him. <br />You won't be able to. Retract your ridiculous statement.</span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=741880567&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/userid5869958">Alan Maricle</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}">About this Tyler Rogers fellow, I think he was wrong to state some certain quantity. <br />But
far more wrong is how y'all are WAY more bent out of shape about what
this one guy said in some sub-thread somewhere than you are about the
3500 babies who died today. You care more about your reputations and the
preservation of your precious little kingdoms than about loving your
neighbor. It's terribly sad. Repent of it.</span></div>
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is rather futile to argue "nobody says that! I've never heard of these
people!" To someone who DOES know of these people and has heard them say
these things over and over.</span></div>
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<span class="_3c21"><a href="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-nature-of-preaching-and-some.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Nature of Preaching and Some Implications Thereof</a></span></div>
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<span class="_3c21">Below
you can find the results of an exhaustive concordance search through
the New Testament for words related to preaching and proclaiming,...</span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=100000487681268&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/WretchedGT?fref=ufi">Greg Taylor</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=741880567&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/userid5869958?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Alan Maricle</a>
you wrote that it was a huge mission field. The mission field is those
who need the gospel, not the church. You completely missed the point of
people's objections. It was worse than badly worded. It was slanderously
worded.<br /><br />You should repent
of your false accusations. By not being there and making such huge
false allegations, you caused many people's motives to be colored as
tainted. You should stop falsely accusing the brethren and causing
problems, even for others who may not have thought about Shepherd's
Conference as you did.</span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=100000487681268&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/WretchedGT?fref=ufi">Greg Taylor</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=741880567&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/userid5869958?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Alan Maricle</a>
it was claimed by one of the people actually there as part of AHA, that
the part of going on Sunday was not a planned part of the organized
conference. You should again stop slandering people's wording about what
you obviously know nothing about. <br /><br />You
misrepesented in yoiur tweet as though you were a part of the 'event',
then criticize perfectly correct wording according to someone who was
there as idiotic things that he is writing.....pot kettle, kettle pot.
You write something completely false about the 'event' at Shepherd's
Conference, taint many people's viewpoint of it and then have the
audacity to accuse someone else of writing ridiculous statements...oh
the irony.</span></div>
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also multitudes of times it has been claimed that AHA is not an
organization. You prove the point, for deeming to speak for them, when
several of them confronted you and told you that they didn't agree with
what you wrote as representing what the event was about.</span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=741880567&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/userid5869958">Alan Maricle</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}">\\The mission field is those who need the gospel, not the church\\<br /><br />The
astute reader of the New Testament will note that verses exist like
Acts 20:32 that mention wolves arising from the ranks of older mature
men who oversee that tear up the flocks of
God, or 1 John 2 where people eventually go out from among us, or Jude
that mentions those still professing to know Christ but who are false. <br />The mission field is those who *remain unconverted*. <br /><br />\\ You completely missed the point of people's objections\\<br /><br />No,
*you* and everyone else here have missed the point of abolitionist
exhortations. I know this b/c nobody has actually addressed my own
status, which was the only one of its kind of which I am aware, let
alone the reasons that most abolitionists gave for approaching ShepCon.
When you can't even correctly re-state your opponent's position, your
own critique carries zero weight.<br /><br />\\You should repent of your false accusations.\\<br /><br />What is your evidence that the statement is false?<br /><br />\\it
was claimed by one of the people actually there as part of AHA, that
the part of going on Sunday was not a planned part of the organized
conference.\\<br /><br />"Part of AHA" is not say-able. It's
like saying "part of Calvinism" or "part of dispensationalism". Do you
mean that there were some abolitionists somewhere? I'm sure there were.
Why is that relevant?<br /><br />\\You misrepesented in yoiur tweet as though you were a part of the 'event'\\<br /><br />How?
Facebook says right there on the status "Madrid", b/c that's where I
live. Please don't make up reasons to accuse out of thin air.<br /><br />\\multitudes of times it has been claimed that AHA is not an organization. \\<br /><br />Because it isn't one.<br /><br />\\
You prove the point, for deeming to speak for them, when several of
them confronted you and told you that they didn't agree with what you
wrote as representing what the event was about.\\<br /><br />This statement is so poorly reasoned that it's just laughable.<br />1) I didn't speak FOR anyone. I put it up as my own personal status.<br />2)
You refute your own point in pointing out quite rightly that numerous
abolitionists publicly or semi-publicly criticised my status... and why?
Not because I misrep'd some organisation. Because they thought it was
wrong! <br />3) The Project Nineveh event in LA **was** an
organised event! I don't understand how y'all can't seem to grasp simple
distinctions. When abolitionists get together to form an abolitionist
society, that's an organisation! When they start a store to sell AHA
gear, that's an organisation! When they get together to carry out
certain events over the course of a few days in a certain area, that's
an organised event!<br />None of that means that AHA is an
organisation. These are simple distinctions. Use your head. Grow up and
deal like a big boy with the actual state of affairs.</span></div>
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Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-62810244713988094712017-02-07T08:18:00.000-06:002017-02-08T07:37:40.437-06:00Jason Wallace Misrepresents Abolition<a href="https://www.facebook.com/daniel.j.wallace.9" target="_blank">Jason Wallace</a> is a religious service provider at an OPC branch in Utah. Unsurprisingly, James White mentioned him specifically as a personal friend in a recent Dividing Line program. In recent social media interactions he has shown himself to be, <a href="https://www.facebook.com/AbolishHumanAbortion/posts/1332538526812158" target="_blank">much like Rich Pierce</a>, a closed-minded sower of division who cares not at all when he willfully misrepresents servants of the living God despite numerous corrections.<br />
Since I'd say the odds favor his eventual deletion of one of the notable threads in which he amply demonstrates his evil thinking, I'll reproduce it here. First, though, <a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10211419189416803&set=a.3951939278289.170198.1274367120&type=3" target="_blank">his 13 objections to AHA</a>, which will be followed by rebuttals.<br />
<br />
<b>UPDATE</b>: Before the fold, though, I'd like to throw in a sideways sigh toward <a href="http://blog.abolishhumanabortion.com/search/label/JD%20Hall" target="_blank">JD Hall</a>, who refers obliquely to this article in <a href="http://polemicsreport.com/2017/02/07/thirteen-points-of-rightful-criticism-toward-aha/" target="_blank">his copy+paste of Wallace's 13 points</a>.<br />
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He even mentions me specifically and the fact that I criticise the points here, but unsurprisingly doesn't link here so people can evaluate the 13 points and their rebuttals. He does take time to make the assertion that my statement that "Virtually all abolitionists are part of faithful visible churches" is a "laughable inaccuracy", and of course, though he has been corrected on that many times, gives no indication that he cares about correction, truth, or fairness. Nor does he give any evidence that the statement is inaccurate, let alone laughable.<br />
And since JD reads this blog, I will now make another plea to him directly: Jordan, let us be brothers again. You invited me over to your house! You left me alone in your house where I had access to anything I would have wanted to steal or sabotage or whatever you think a dangerous church-hating cultist might do. You called me "closer than a brother" in public not long after, and then less than two months later were tossing me aside in public as a <a href="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com.es/2016/09/warning-signs-avoid-jordan-hall.html" target="_blank">cultist</a>. I guess better a cultist than a <a href="https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1213270592120268&id=150750095038995" target="_blank">jihadist</a>...<br />
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<i>AHA Repent</i><br />
<i><br /></i>
<i>Abolish Human Abortion (AHA) focuses much of its energy on calling churches to repent of “abortion apathy.” It is supposedly not enough for churches to call abortion murder and work for its total elimination; churches are in sin unless they agree with AHA's tactics. It is time AHA is called to repent.</i><br />
<i><br /></i>
<i>1. If your family is not part of a faithful, visible church, your priority should not be abortion, but getting them in a faithful church (1 Timothy 3:15).</i><br />
<i>2. If you cannot name the elders to whom you submit (Hebrews 13:17), your priority should be to obey God yourself, rather than seeking excuses not to do so (Matthew 7:5).</i><br />
<i>3. If you are denouncing churches as guilty of sin without being in covenant with a visible church, you are not a reformer, but a schismatic. Christians are called to avoid you (Titus 3:10).</i><br />
<i>4. Please stop playing word games (Matthew 5:37). When you are holding signs outside a church accusing them of sin, it is as much a protest as holding signs outside abortion clinics with accusations of sin.</i><br />
<i>5. Please stop using the horror of abortion to confuse the issue. That is an agreed point with the churches you are protesting; it is your tactics that are the issue.</i><br />
<i>6. Stop assuming that if people just saw how bad abortion was, they would have to agree with your tactics. Paul Hill used this same approach to ignore criticisms of his shooting abortionists. AHA admits he was wrong on the violence, but uses the same logic to ignore its critics.</i><br />
<i>7. Please stop demonizing and attacking anyone who disagrees with you. (1 Corinthians 13)</i><br />
<i>8. Your accusations of “abortion apathy” find no direct support anywhere in the Bible. This “sin” is a perfectionistic implication you draw from unrelated texts.</i><br />
<i>9. Creating sins over which to accuse others, without clear Scriptural warrant, is Phariseeism (Matthew 15:9).</i><br />
<i>10. Where in the Old or New Testament do you find anyone attacking churches over “abortion apathy”? You confuse the calls for Israel to use the sword to destroy pagan worship with the church's mandate in the New Testament. You admit that the church's weapons are spiritual, but then hold it to the same immediatism as if they had the sword.</i><br />
<i>11. Recognize that many of the people who are leading AHA are in rebellion against being accountable to any real church. Don't let them play off your legitimate disgust of abortion to feed your frustration with the church. Perfectionistic schismatics have a long history and will lead you to destruction.</i><br />
<i>12. If you will not hear any visible church, Jesus says no Christian should count you a brother (Matthew 18:17).</i><br />
<i>13. AHA needs to stop calling on faithful churches to repent of their made-up sin of “abortion apathy” and repent of their own very real sin of schism.</i><br />
<br />
<b>In answer:</b><br />
<br />
1. Sounds like a good idea in principle. Virtually all abolitionists are part of faithful visible churches or are actively involved trying to help the churches with which they are involved to become faithful.<br />
<br />
2. Hebrews 13:17 doesn't have anything to do with elders. Please check the passage and try again.<br />
Also, what is your argument that non-"submission" to elders necessarily entails disobedience to the Scripture? Merely citing Hebrews 13:17 (and twisting it in the process, I might add) is not an argument.<br />
<br />
3. Where does the idea of "covenant" with a local church appear in the Scripture? <br />
What is your argument to this effect? <br />
Why can't those outside the visible institution call those inside it to repentance? Does the SOURCE matter or does the MESSAGE matter? <br />
<br />
4. It is YOU who are playing word games, for it is up to the person acting to define what he is doing. You don't like what we do so you attach negative-sounding baggage to it. That is disingenuous. It is like an atheist complaining that you do what you do because you "shove religion down others' throats". <br />
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5. The issue is our guilt as a nation of silence while child sacrifice continues pretty much unopposed. You dislike our tactics of raising awareness, but your emotional state is not the issue at hand.<br />
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6. This doesn't really make sense. What precisely is the objection to the tactics? And we don't make the assumption you said we make. We are trying to obey Eph 5.11 and expose the evil.<br />
<br />
7. Where has anyone done that? Have you called them specifically to repentance when they have done so? <br />
Are you not doing that to us right now?<br />
<br />
8. So you don't think apathy about rampant sin going on around you is sinful in itself? James 4:10 has nothing to say about it? You don't love others enough to warn them of the wrath to come? Hiding light under bushels? Etc<br />
If it were "perfectionistic", do you mean that we strive to be perfect? <br />
If you mean that we think we are perfect already, then why do we constantly say "repent WITH US"? Why do we rebuke sinless perfectionists when we encounter them?<br />
<br />
9. Where have we done that? What examples can you cite?<br />
<br />
10. Nobody is attacking churches, so the false premise renders the question invalid.<br />
<br />
11. How so? Be specific. Who? How do you know this?<br />
<br />
12. Who refuses to hear any visible church? Be specific. How do you know this?<br />
<br />
13. AHA is an ideology and ideologies can't "call on" anyone or anything. Agents, like people, do things like that. Ideologies don't. <br />
When you can't even properly categorise the things you're trying to deal with, it gives the reader every reason to dismiss your "points".<br />
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The main parts of the thread:<br />
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1001932129&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/Zea.Liz.Blithe?fref=ufi">Elizabeth Joy</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody">I assemble with the brother in this picture at a visible church in PA. <br /><br />This entire list is full of slander and things that aren't true. <br />I can say with certainty they aren't true of this brother or other abolitionists I know and work with.</span></span><br />
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1274367120&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/daniel.j.wallace.9?fref=ufi" id="js_8md" role="null">Jason Wallace</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g">I
never said that every AHA supporter was outside a visible church. It
is clear that some are not. Would you care to specify the "slander"
that "fills" the list? Is your friend really not protesting? Does the
AHA not call churches to repent of "abortion
apathy"? I note that you use the word "assemble;" do you have specific
elders to whom you submit? Is there a specific church to which you
have covenanted to listen?</span></span></div>
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I will gladly share these things with you, but I hope it is with the
intent to know truth, on your part, and not the intent to argue with me,
that you ask.</span></span></div>
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never said that every AHA supporter was outside a visible church.// it
would seem you purport that the ideology leads to this? <br />//It is clear that some are not.// can you name names, sir? I am aware of no abolitionists who are not in fellowship with the church.<br /><br />//Would
you care to specify the "slander" that "fills" the list? // sure, but
that would take a seperate comment, so please bear with me, brother, as I
go over the list more thoroughly in another comment.<br /><br />//Is your friend really not protesting?//<br />No
he is not, he is seeking to encourage, rebuke, exhort, his brothers and
sisters in Christ. Something he does just as regularly within our
little assembly also. However, he is not sent outside to do so. <br /><br />//Does the AHA not call churches to repent of "abortion apathy"?//<br /> Abolitionists do. Including myself. <br />There
is no such thing as "The AHA." Abolish Human Abortion is an ideology.
If you'd like more information on the 5 tenets and 2 modes of the
ideology that abolitionists adopt, I'd be glad to point you in that
direction, brother. <span class="_47e3 _5mfr" title="smile emoticon"><img class="img" height="16" src="https://www.facebook.com/images/emoji.php/v7/fa5/1.5/16/1f642.png" width="16" /><span class="_7oe">:)</span></span><br /><br />//I
note that you use the word "assemble;" do you have specific elders to
whom you submit? Is there a specific church to which you have
covenanted to listen?//<br /><br />Yes, there are elders who
guide and lead and teach us. No, there is no membership roll. The
covenant we enter into upon salvation is sufficient for our little
assembly.<br />You can learn more about our assembly here: <br /><a class="" dir="ltr" href="http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independencerbc.org%2F&h=ATPY5K5ztopSxvPPJPGC8ay_aVZ049mJL1F76k65HI2qjgiv_eZz5luOobOj4Xob_2f96z5hmY9DnaMuPz5Q-Pv8uavZN9HJPNQxbgZ_kQQnEMOMV2Vdq0JFvSqC" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.independencerbc.org/</a></span></span><br />
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I have no time for the word games that seem to define your
movement/ideology or whatever you want to call it. AHA is a very clever
game: it attacks faithful churches, but then tries to define itself in a
way that no one can respond. Is Independence
Reformed Bible Church declaring churches outside which your folks are
protesting (or whatever you want to call it) guilty of "abortion
apathy"? If not, why not?</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1001932129&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/Zea.Liz.Blithe?fref=ufi">Elizabeth Joy</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g">Our
church is not entirely made up of abolitionists. There are those who
attend who are either not yet familiar with the ideology, or becoming
familiar. <br /><br />There are also many in our church who have stood outside of child sacrifice centers, schools, universities, and events like WinterJam, and G3. I have stood outside of churches calling them to repent, as has my husband. <br /><br />So
yes, I'd say our elders are on board with the cry of "Church repent!"
It is something ongoing in our own little assembly also. Church repent
doesn't always include signs outside of churches, it can and is done in a
variety of ways by a variety of abolitionists. <br /><br />If
you wonder what our elders think on this issue, I'd strongly urge you to
contact them and speak with them, I know they'd be glad to discuss this
with you.</span></span></div>
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Jason, I am not sure what word games you are referring to? I am being
very open and honest with you, a complete stranger, because I wish to
reason with you. <br /><br />I am careful to say exactly what I mean, yes. But there are no "word games" here.</span></span></div>
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your church believes that other churches need to be publicly denounced
as in sin, they should have the courage of their convictions and do it
as a body, or they should correct you for doing it.</span></span></div>
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sells t-shirts and plasters their logo across the Internet, but if any
criticism is offered, it's only an ideology? That's a word game.
Accusing churches of sin with signs outside their services is
protesting, even if you want to call it basket-weaving.</span></span></div>
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don't follow, Jason? Isn't the church made up of different parts? Does
every single one need to be standing outside of churches with signs?</span></span></div>
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understand your movement. Behind all the evasions, AHA is at war with
the church. If you really believe in what you are doing, stop playing
games, come out into the open, and accept criticism for it.</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1001932129&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/Zea.Liz.Blithe?fref=ufi">Elizabeth Joy</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g">Jason,
I don't understand what you object to? I have demonstrated that your
accusations of abolitionists not being a part of the church are untrue. <br /><br />I believe I have openly and honestly demonstrated this in the case of myself, and my brother in the photo. <br /><br />So why do you keep up the accusations with his picture?</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1001932129&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/Zea.Liz.Blithe?fref=ufi">Elizabeth Joy</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody">I
am out in the open. I have exposed my church, my elders, my family, and
myself to your scrutiny. Yet you somehow still find them wanting. But
under what grounds? <br /><br />Do you find me to be in sin, Jason?</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1274367120&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/daniel.j.wallace.9?fref=ufi">Jason Wallace</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g">You
have not demonstrated anything wrong in what I said. I said "IF your
family is not in in a visible church. . ." There are AHA
activists/members/abolitionists who are outside any church and vocal
about it. Yes, you are in sin by protesting churches
(or whatever you want to call your activities with signs). You are
accusing them of sin outside any court of the church. You are not
following Matthew 18; you are acting as a pope, denouncing them without
the benefit of any court to hear their defense. You've not taken this
to your elders for them to bring the charge publicly as a body; you are
acting as a schismatic. My hope is that the churches you have been
protesting will charge you at your church and call on them to adjudicate
the matter. My hope is that they will follow Matthew 18 and call you
to repentance and work for the peace of Christ's church. My prayer is
that you will also hear them.</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1092652086&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/toby.harmon.1?fref=ufi">Toby Harmon</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g">Jason,
repeating that Elizabeth is playing word games, when she is in fact not
doing so, doesn't substantiate your repeated assertions. Now it may be
because you're truly ignorant of understanding what ahagear is (a URL of
Abortion Abolition Resources which is
an LLC) and how it is not AHA. AHA is a symbol representing a set of
ideas (an ideology), much like TULIP is an acronym representing a set of
theological ideas. But it would be really ignorant or just plain dumb
to say that Calvinism was an organization because there was a website
URL that that had the word TULIP in it and sold shirts with Cavlins face
on them.</span></span></div>
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A protest is a protest, even if you don't like the term. Stop trying
to redefine it. AHA is organized enough to do a number of things in
community, but it melts into an ideology whenever anyone criticizes
something someone does in its name. That seems like a game. Either it
is a substantive movement or its not. It sure seems like one to anyone
on the outside.</span></span></div>
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brothers and sisters in Christ to love their neighbor and to obey
Christ is no different than what some may say from a pulpit, or in a
Sunday school class, or church conference, or a radio show, or while
writing a book. <br /><br />How is it that it becomes sin on the sidewalk?</span></span></div>
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it's a movement yes, in the sense that individuals are united together
under Christ with a biblical understanding and set of ideas on how we
ought to faithfully oppose child sacrifice. These individuals are
members of the body and Bride of Christ
and each of them assemble locally with other members of the body and
Bride of Christ in different visible manifestations. These individuals
are in constant communication with one another to organize efforts to
wake up our sleeping culture (which includes the Christians in our
culture) to repent of either the practice or toleration of
child-sacrifice.) This reality does not make AHA an organization.</span></span></div>
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In terms of AHA, to whom do I bring charges? You say it's an ideology.
As far as Elizabeth, she asked me if I thought she was in sin. I
answered her question and laid out how it should be addressed.</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1092652086&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/toby.harmon.1?fref=ufi">Toby Harmon</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g">If
you have charges against me, then tell me my sin. If I'm in sin and
won't Repent, bring witnesses to confirm all the facts. If they are
confirmed and I still won't Repent, bring it to other Christians who
know me, bring it to local folks I meet with T <a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=505081831&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/t.russell.hunter?hc_location=ufi" id="js_99r" role="null" target="_blank">T. Russell Hunter</a> Josh <a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=537662321&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/jon.malone.395?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Jon Malone</a> <a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=135900226&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/aaron.hoffman.54?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Aaron Hoffman</a> of those who aren't local but who hold me equally accountable <a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=584173691&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/todd.bullis?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Todd M Bullis</a> <a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=100003178639280&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/Matt7HasMoreThanOneVerse?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Michael Graves</a> <a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=741880567&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/userid5869958?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Alan Maricle</a> Michael <a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=100011220857899&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/mike.gulley.144?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Mike Gulley</a>
all men of God who I trust and who have my ear. All men who know
Christ, understand His word, are filled with the Spirit and have proven
themselves mature in the faith. Any of them can hold me accountable for
sin. Any of them can mark me out as an unrepentant sinner and warn
others to disfellowship from me.</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1274367120&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/daniel.j.wallace.9?fref=ufi">Jason Wallace</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody">I'm
sick and tired of AHA folks accusing others of sin and hypocrisy, but
then playing the victim whenever anyone responds. You started this, and
as a faithful shepherd, I have responded.</span></span></div>
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no, sir, I beg to differ. You wrote the above status, accusing the
brother in the picture, and other abolitionists of hating the church,
and abandoning her. <br /><br />This is not so, sir. I don't understand how you are "faithful" in calling us to repent, and yet we are in sin?</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1274367120&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/daniel.j.wallace.9?fref=ufi">Jason Wallace</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody"><a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1092652086&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/toby.harmon.1?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Toby Harmon</a>
You ignore what I say and seek to twist it to your own purposes.
You're being dishonest, and I've wasted enough time dealing with you.</span></span></div>
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you don't think The Church is guilty while millions are murdered every
year in the midst of 100,000s of bible believing and teaching local
churches then I don't know what else to say to you sir</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1092652086&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/toby.harmon.1?fref=ufi">Toby Harmon</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody"><a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1274367120&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/daniel.j.wallace.9?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Jason Wallace</a> prove it, don't just assert it. That's all you've done in this entire thread.</span></span></div>
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You're also twisting my words. I pointed out that his sign was a
contradiction, and he was attacking the church he was protesting.</span></span></div>
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would it look like for an ideology to exist and be represented by a
symbol and for the people who held to that ideology to use the symbol
that represented it?</span></span></div>
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more assertions. "Attacking" "protesting." You haven't demonstrated at
all how these descriptors are an accurate reflection of his actions.</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1001932129&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/Zea.Liz.Blithe?fref=ufi">Elizabeth Joy</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody">He was standing outside of the G3 conference in this picture, seeking to exhort brothers and sisters to love rheir neighbor. <br /><br />This is not a protest. It is what is commanded in scripture. Exhortation.</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1092652086&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/toby.harmon.1?fref=ufi">Toby Harmon</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody"><a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1274367120&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/daniel.j.wallace.9?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Jason Wallace</a> what court are you accusing us before here?</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1274367120&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/daniel.j.wallace.9?fref=ufi">Jason Wallace</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody"><a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1092652086&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/toby.harmon.1?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Toby Harmon</a> To what court can you bring an "Ideology"? You can't have it both ways.</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1001932129&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/Zea.Liz.Blithe?fref=ufi">Elizabeth Joy</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g">Jason, there has been a consistent distinction in this thread between "ideology" and "abolitionists."<br /><br />I assume, this is something not beyond your understanding. <br /><br />You can, and have accused this abolitionist. <br />Why wiggle out now, sir? <br />Now you are playing word games.</span></span></div>
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you are accusing, according to your false presupposition "AHA The
Organization" before a fb court (which you wouldn't find acceptable as
any kind of court I'm guessing), so I am arguing according to your
presuppositions. You can bring the
ideology to the court of Scripture and measure those ideas against it
and hold fast to that which is good. You can bring individual
Abolitionists to a court of their peers.</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=516363109&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/tim.bushong.3?fref=ufi">Tim Bushong</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody">"I'm sick and tired of AHA folks accusing others of sin and hypocrisy, but then playing the victim whenever anyone responds."<br /><br /><a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1274367120&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/daniel.j.wallace.9?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Jason Wallace</a>
-- That is exactly what they have been doing, and it's a childish and
immature attempt to evade the reasons why what they do is schismatic.
Excellent, brother.</span></span></div>
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No, you don't. I just read through this entire conversation, and the
fallacies coming from your end are demonstrably and truly fallacious. It
really is (as brother <a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1274367120&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/daniel.j.wallace.9?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Jason Wallace</a> said waaaaay up there) "word games."<br /><br />Stop pretending to be an Elijah or a Jeremiah. Methodology doesn't equal intent or result.</span></span></div>
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1347697463&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/kaylene.s.rasmussen?fref=ufi">Kaylene Rass</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody">Wow, Toby Harmon, Nice try at twisting Jason's words. Is this thread another example of AHA's tactics?</span></span></div>
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Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-33284292764466374232017-01-23T14:01:00.003-06:002017-01-23T14:57:01.608-06:00Tony Miano Sinning Against Abolitionists Yet AgainThe hate is strong with this one...<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xPS_ftnNqo4" width="560"></iframe><br />
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A commenter on the video <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPS_ftnNqo4&lc=z13zyternxr3zxvs523swzg41l2mtdiju04">says</a>:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Watching this video with a purely analytical eye, here's what I see. A man is reading the Bible out loud, apparently to himself. A person walks up and says, "That's for you," interrupting him to the same degree as a Denny's waitress, a church usher, or a StarBucks barista delivering a latte (and who hasn't read their Bible in a coffee shop?). The man is neither annoyed nor offended by this and is about to return to reading the Word, when a second man also interrupts the reading to inform the first man that he has been given an unwelcome tract. Instead of proceeding with the reading (you know, out if respect for God's word) the first man then himself interrupts the word of God, having apparently decided that it would be in the interest of the greater good to pause and use the moment as a platform to make accusatory statements about the philosophy represented by the person who initially said, "This is for you."</blockquote>
<br />
Very true. Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-4955317221090410622016-11-18T13:24:00.000-06:002016-11-18T13:24:33.597-06:00A street preacher's thoughts on "BLM are racist thugs" at the University of OklahomaOn November 16, 2016, two street preachers of some infamy <a href="http://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-students-respond-to-uptick-of-racist-incidents-on-campus/article_074d423c-ac48-11e6-8d0a-23b57070d076.html" target="_blank">appeared on the campus of the University of Oklahoma</a> to make a name for themselves. I am to some extent familiar with these men as we run in some of the same circles both in real life and on social media. I am compelled to offer some commentary based on a great deal of experience in similar situations, as a preacher, as an alumnus, and as an outside observer, given that the behavior, speech, and underlying theology of these men are awful and the student, faculty, and police response was approximately equally bad. The astute observer is thus left dismayed at how the main victims of the day were truth and righteousness.<br />
<br />
First and foremost, any cursory review of my social media presence will reflect that I do frequently engage in street preaching and other community agitation. I stress here that <b>I refuse any and all brotherhood or fellowship with men such as these</b>, and I have done so for a long time (<a href="https://www.blogger.com/">see here</a> for a collection of links and videos substantiating such, notably <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqKxL0-TQTE&t=1s" target="_blank">this video</a>), even to the point of experiencing challenges in mutual friendships I hold with other men whose discernment I would call dangerously immature. I have come into conflict with <a href="https://www.facebook.com/StopSinning" target="_blank">Larry Street</a>, the preacher wearing a cap and sunglasses, while I was preaching and he was preaching at an Oklahoma City Black Mass. I first met "Brother <a href="https://www.facebook.com/jim.gilles.5" target="_blank">Jim" Gilles</a> around 1997 when he was preaching in front of OU's Dale Hall and I was a student at OU. As his preaching then is about the same as it is now, I rebutted him in public, especially on <a href="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2013/05/some-questions-for-those-who-think.html" target="_blank">his claims that he no longer sins</a>, that he is sinlessly perfect. My arguments were not wrong back then as far as I remember, but I have learned how better to combat ideas such as his in the 19 intervening years.<br />
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I have no part with these men and believe them to be dangerous false teachers. Their main message amounts to "stop sinning, sinner", which is far from the content of the main message of the Bible. As if his public proclamations weren't sufficient, Street's Facebook profile is even facebook.com/<b>StopSinning</b>. Gilles for his part denies numerous fundamental biblical doctrines, such as <a href="https://www.facebook.com/notes/jim-gilles/what-the-oneness-jesus-only-apostolic-jesus-name-baptism-holy-ghost-or-nothing-m/10206958533394518" target="_blank">the doctrine of the Trinity</a>. He affirms that works of man (such as water baptism) (in the name of Jesus only, by the way) are necessary pre-requisites for justification, the new birth, the forgiveness of sins, thus perverting the Gospel; in short, he is a Oneness Pentecostal, a heretic. In addition, as mentioned previously, he exalts himself as a sinlessly perfect man, rather than exalting the cross of Christ, thus setting himself up over all the holy men and women recorded in the Scripture (the best of whom, apart from Jesus Christ, are said to be righteous/blameless, which is not equivalent to sinless perfection) and violating numerous Scriptures, not least 2 Corinthians 4:5 and Galatians 6:14. <br />
<br />
In keeping with their strategy of self-exaltation, these men consider that attracting a large crowd is an end that justifies whatever means required to achieve it. This is why Jim wears t-shirts declaring <a href="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gG-HjN2KZgU/hqdefault.jpg" target="_blank">"Allah is Satan" with red dashes oozing drops of blood near the neckline, saying "cut along dotted line"</a>. This is why they print up needlessly offensive signs such as "<a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207058442572185&set=a.1364279639743.44853.1614180261&type=3&theater" target="_blank">BLM are racist thugs</a>" and take them out in public. Their main interest is not to glorify Jesus Christ by saying the things Jesus did and acting the ways He acted. Neither Jesus nor the apostles nor the prophets are ever recorded taking a relatively minor societal movement and making it the centerpiece of social agitation. Rather, they generally focused on major, enormous sins that were common to most or all of society, such as <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MPi4_OoYpk" target="_blank">child sacrifice</a>, and often proclaimed the biblical response to that evil, the cross of Christ, repentance of sin toward God, the resurrection of Christ, and taking up one's cross to follow Him, leaving behind worldly ways.<br />
<br />
Clearly their main desire is to puff themselves up and make people angry rather than to exalt Christ. That is one reason why they took cynical advantage of the shallow idiocy of the majority of our modern culture, leveraging the foolish Black Lives Matter movement and the mass of emotion surrounding it, to criticise the few leaders of that movement. This is not an objectively persuasive argument; while the message on the sign is true in the main, it is irrelevant to the justice of the BLM cause. Far better to demonstrate the hypocrisy inherent in the BLM ideology vis-a-vis its behavior, such as how BLM demonstrators usually take the most action after an incident of supposed police brutality while ignoring the fact that 1/3 of all black babies are aborted in the USA <b>every day</b>. No, they chose to restrict their offense to that which they calculated would maximise the emotional overload. They even calculate <a href="https://twitter.com/Clarky_Tweets/status/798967436225679360" target="_blank">the way they talk</a> and the <a href="https://twitter.com/Clarky_Tweets/status/798977540689952844" target="_blank">things they say</a> (such as "I don't let women tell me what to do") to enrage and trigger brittle, immature people.<br />
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Note also the (unsurprising) inability of liberals to respond in any substantive way. University president and former US Senator and governor of Oklahoma David Boren felt the incident important enough to <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Csk3NRmdDw" target="_blank">address the mob in person</a>, which is interesting in and of itself. Boren's speech is full of inane lib-speak. Consider these paraphrased nuggets:<br />
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"OU is a family."<br />
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A family which one pays to be part of. A family in which sexual assault and immorality are rampant. Hazing, drunkenness, hatred, opposing factions, totally opposite worldviews... apparently families exist where someone merely proclaims they exist. <br />
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"These preachers have no right to be here."<br />
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Yet the university is public, supported by Oklahoma taxpayers like Larry Street, and its outside spaces are a traditional public forum for free expression of ideas. On what basis does Boren remove that right? <br />
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"They preach division."<br />
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Jesus did too. Boren conveniently ignores those passages of Scripture so that he can put forward his own ideas of the foundations of unity and what unity is supposed to look like.<br />
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"I request as a human being - leave."<br />
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Apparently it is "human" and good to plaster over divisions and perpetuate ideas of false peace. <br />
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"Diversity is our strength."<br />
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The amazing irony is evidently lost on Boren as he preaches diversity while removing dissenters from the grounds of the public university by threat of force. This is the oft-observed tolerance of the intolerant. Diversity for me, not for thee.<br />
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Of course, it should surprise no one whose eyes are open that liberals have no good, grown-up answers to problems like police brutality or racism; nor can they countenance enormous problems like the abortion genocide against black people. Yet the saddest part of this entire episode is the response of "Christians" to these preachers of wickedness. It is no surprise that a church culture that itself won't even try to offer real answers to systematic child sacrifice has prepared none of its 20 year old students to deal biblically with men and situations such as these, but it is heartbreaking. That the church people see fit to stand with the liberals and say the things they are saying tells us all we need to know about the health of the churches.<br />
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At some point an apparently professing student-athlete and church person by the name of <a href="https://twitter.com/najeebissoon" target="_blank">Najee Bissoon</a> stood up to <a href="https://twitter.com/Clarky_Tweets/status/798981286027292672" target="_blank">take the megaphone</a>. His message? "There's only one thing that can conquer hate, and that's f*cking love."<br />
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As that sinks in, consider that he apparently went on to lead <a href="https://twitter.com/Clarky_Tweets/status/798988251373727745" target="_blank">a post-mob prayer circle</a> in which they repeated the same liberal nonsense that Boren had affirmed, frosted lightly with christianoid verbiage. Very little in the way of biblical response is in evidence. Bissoon himself barely even blushed to offer his obscene reply to the preachers' words, yet put himself forward and allowed his to be seen as the Christian and commonsense response. Whether dropping an F-bomb in public in the name of Jesus is as bad as preaching what Larry and Jim preached is beside the point. Bissoon showed what is in his heart (Luke 6:45). When under pressure, it wasn't Holy Spirit that was squeezed out; it was wicked, foul language. I hope someone has gone to Bissoon to call him to repentance, as the profanity came out of him smoothly, by all appearances after much practice. I wonder why no Christian stood up to oppose these men and preach a message of true fidelity to Jesus' Gospel, neither partaking in the lies of the culture as encapsulated by President Boren nor the lies of self-righteous religion as demonstrated by Larry and Jim. <br />
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As one who ministers fairly regularly in roughly the same spot as these men used, I wonder now how this incident will affect other preachers like me going forward. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrii6iqBo8s&t=1021s" target="_blank">Usually</a> agitation at Dale Hall <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOj6cYG-iRk" target="_blank">goes without opposition</a> from campus police. Apart from that question, how will the student population be pre-disposed to judge anyone who stands in public and raises his voice and says stuff like "sin" and "Jesus"? As a crazy, racist, self-righteous moron, right? But I am none of those things, by God's grace, while Larry and Jim are. Yet Larry and Jim make themselves more visible by their disgraceful behavior.<br />
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Humanly speaking, therefore, true Gospel preachers will be viewed with unmerited suspicion by these people who have been exposed to Larry and Jim. In a sense the throngs reveal their hearts in that when righteous agitation exposing things like the sin leading all to Hell and the child sacrifice Holocaust comes their way, they largely ignore it, but when unrighteous agitation on a relatively minor topic crosses their path, they flock to interact, persecute, and be near. Ironically, this is a fulfillment of prophecies from the Apostle Paul - <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
1 Tim 4:1-2 - But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron.<br />
<br />
2 Tim 4:3-4 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.</blockquote>
Usually those passages are cited to make sense of the huge followings of the likes of Joel Osteen and TD Jakes. The likes of Larry and Jim make a mockery of the Gospel just as JoelO and Jakes do, just in a different way, and people flock to them for similar reasons - to flee from the truth, embrace delusion, and feel justified in doing so.<br />
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2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 - those... perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.<br />
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It is actually a manifestation of the wrath of God that crowds flock to surround men like Jim and largely ignore righteous Gospel preaching. They can't even be bothered to actively hate the message; they just flit from one entertaining attraction to the next, indifferent, apathetic, and complacent. Wickedness comes in many forms. May God bring Larry and Jim to repentance, and may He deliver us all from all wickedness in all its shapes.Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com21tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-20731454228489823602016-09-24T23:42:00.000-05:002019-04-15T13:19:48.481-05:00Warning Signs - Avoid Jordan HallJordan Hall has done all us the favor of informing us why he and his ministry should be strictly avoided. It turns out that <a href="https://pulpitandpen.org/2016/09/23/cult-warning-signs/" target="_blank">he displays many of the signs of a cult</a>, so watch out!<br />
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Just joking. He's actually warning about the Abolish Human Abortion movement, the movement about which he let me stand in his church building and talk to his congregation literally two months ago, only now to throw me away. The man dispenses with friendships quicker than most anyone I've ever met. <a href="http://polemicsreport.com/2016/08/18/an-open-letter-to-aha/" target="_blank">Just the other day</a> I was "a close friend" of his. Now I'm an anathematised cultist. That sort of turnaround you can't find every day. The man has some problems. Instability, probably some paranoia going on. It's sad, really it is, but it would appear that while I tried (and probably failed in some ways) not to enable his flaws while he still thought I was his friend, he just picks up enablers to surround himself with. Out with Tom Buck and in with Justin Pierce. Out with Dustin Germain and in with Bud Ahlheim. Out with Gene Clyatt and in with Brandon Hines. It will continue, I figure, until God should mercifully intervene to, I hope, break Jordan's heart unto repentance.<br />
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But as it turns out, Jordan's self-made, self-serving, ad hoc list of "cult warning signs" isn't quite what he probably hoped it would be when he wrote it, for it exonerates groups that really are cultic while incriminating Jordan's own ministry endeavors as well as, strangely enough, the earliest Christian church of the apostolic era. To see how, let's explore them one by one, but not before you peruse the pre-requisite reading <a href="http://blog.abolishhumanabortion.com/2015/01/is-aha-cult.html" target="_blank">here</a> and pre-requisite viewing <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXyFKSw_6qI" target="_blank">here</a>.<br />
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<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<b>1. Sub-Christian sects often purport to be the only authentic believers, and characterize all others as sell-outs, compromised, or watered-down imitations of the real Church or of real Christians.</b> This tactic has been particularly powerful since the Restorationist Movement in the mid-19th Century. They will speak of “restoring” the church and going back to the “real church” that was lost in the Apostolic Age. This belief eventually causes them to reject the Visible Church.</blockquote>
Did the apostolic church of Jesus purport to be such? Yes. So, cult.<br />
Do conservative Bible-believing Christians purport such, over and against liberalism, ecumenism, Rome, and other challengers? Yes. So, cult.<br />
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Strangely, an organisation like the LDS Church often does not claim to be the only authentic believers, for various reason. So, I guess the LDS Church is <b>not</b> a cult. <br />
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<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strong>2. Sub-Christian sects focus on proselytizing believers rather than evangelizing the lost.</strong> The false teachers the church was warned about in <a class="rtBibleRef" data-purpose="bible-reference" data-reference="Acts 20.30" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Acts%2020.30" target="_blank">Acts 20:30</a>
come into the church, appearing to be disciples, only to “draw men
after themselves.” Satan desires to destroy Christians, and typically
leaves the pagan alone. Sub-Christian sects, like their lord and master,
Satan, spends most of their time trying to proselytize professing,
church-going Christians rather than win the lost.</blockquote>
Where did Jordan get this idea? I'd be interested in sources for these thoughts of his. It seems like he just made them up, and yet while I have quite a bit of experience with cults myself, I don't know of any special counter-cult background Jordan has that's more substantial than my own. To what cult study is he alluding?<br />
<br />
Do Pulpit & Pen and the Polemics Report focus on proselytizing believers rather than evangelizing the lost? Yes, they sure do. So, cult.<br />
Do the<b> vast majority</b> of American churches do the same? What about Jordan's own church? Yes. So, cult.<br />
<br />
Interestingly, this pervasive inward focus is one of the main problems for which abolitionists call churches to repentance, but Jordan wants to blame abolitionists for it. And if you're going to try to indicate cultic tendencies on this count, it doesn't make a lot of sense to try to point fingers at a movement that is made up of people who are generally extremely active in public evangelism like AHA.<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strong>3. Sub-Christian sects spend an inordinate amount of time
lobbying for approval of the church-at-large, desperately asking (or
demanding) acceptance</strong>. Of extreme strategic importance to the
schismatic is having established churches lend the sub-Christian cult
credibility or to embrace them as orthodox. A massive amount of time and
resources of the sub-Christian sect will be spent trying to project
themselves as orthodox. Those within orthodoxy simply don’t have to
spend much – if any – time desperately trying to gain acceptance by the
established church, but sub-Christian sects have to.</blockquote>
Jordan demonstrates his extremely poor understanding of AHA yet again on this point. In literally no way are abolitionists lobbying for approval of anyone. And if we were, we are amazingly bad at it; you don't generally make friends by calling for repentance of major sins, of apathy, and so on. What facts led Jordan to think that anyone is desperately asking for for acceptance? I can't think of a single one.<br />
Rather, when abolitionists say stuff like "Repent with us", we are inviting others to walk more closely with Jesus and to forsake their sin just as we are trying to do. It is a benefit and a loving act to <b>them</b>. <b>They</b> need to repent. <b>They</b> need to get closer to Jesus and love their neighbor and stop not loving their neighbor. This is a blessing for <b>them</b>. Jordan has never understood that about Church Repent though it has been explained to him numerous times by many people, including myself. That he still complains it's unclear does not speak well to his acumen and/or intellectual honesty.<br />
<br />
But don't Pulpit & Pen and Polemics Report fit this description? Yes, they do. They love to keep pastors like Emilio Ramos comfy and happy where they are. They love to accept invitations to conferences like NorCal Fire and put on conferences like Reformation: Montana. Other people whom they admire, like Dr James White, regularly mention (almost as a badge of honor) that they don't get invited to "the big conferences", that they're just small fries, and then when they review the stupidities uttered by some Big Shot, they shake their heads and mutter "theology matters." Why do they do that? Is it because they are a cult?<br />
<br />
And don't P&P and PR spend a "massive amount of time and
resources" on trying to affirm orthodoxy in contrast to others? It sounds like this is true of them. <br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strong>4. Sub-Christian sects engage in victory-by-victimhood,
projecting themselves as virtuous and long-suffering victims of
marginalization or mistreatment.</strong> These sects “cry foul” at
every given opportunity, clinging to the status of victimization in
order to signal help from unsuspecting Christians who are drawn in at
the accusation of mistreatment, playing on the good but naive intentions
of believers. It could be called the “Servetus Syndrome,” in which
five-hundred years after the death of a heretic, people still give
sympathy and credence to one who (although he should not have been
burned at the stake) was still a heretic and should have been marked as a
schismatic and shunned from society. Every accusation against the sect
is met with charges of “slander” or “persecution,” a martyr-syndrome
that manifests itself in crying for help from well-meaning believers.</blockquote>
All it will take is a little bit of time watching someone like Jordan Hall, or BibleThumping Wingnut, or Matt Slick, or James White, to know that this description fits them perfectly.<br />
As for abolitionists, I suppose it isn't false that when strawmen are erected, we like to point them out. How is this a bad thing or the mark of a cult, precisely? Is it true that abolitionist cry foul at <b>every</b> opportunity? Can Jordan document such a thing?<br />
Also consider the Catch-22 here - if abolitionists <b>didn't</b> try to show why false accusations are false, wouldn't those who are determined to oppose us jump up and down and claim victory? "I suggested that ___ and ___ were true, and the abolitionists didn't deny them!"<br />
<br />
Finally, it's a commonly known fact of history that the apostolic church faced not only persecution but also lies from within and without. Many of the New Testament writings are meant to overturn falsehoods arising even from within the ranks of the believers. I guess the earliest church was a cult. They should never have spoken up to define true doctrine or call for consistency on the part of their opponents. Since they did, though, they were a cult.<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strong>5. Sub-Christian sects engage in double-dog daring “are you
saying I’m not a brother in Christ” strategy designed to force the
critic to anathematize or accept them.</strong> A very popular tactic,
these schismatics will demand that you call them a “Brother in Christ”
or a “fellow Christian” or dare you to say they aren’t. If you concede
they seem to be a fellow Christian because the confess orthodoxy on
certain soteriological matters, then their charge is that you’re
“attacking fellow Christians” and YOU will be made out to be the
schismatic. If you say they aren’t Christians, then they’ll demand you
explain why, given they agree with this point of theology or that point
of theology. They’ll then make you to be an uncharitable curmudgeon.
Don’t fall for this. You are not obligated to affirm or disavow anyone’s
salvation based upon their profession alone (heretics lie).</blockquote>
I'd like to see Jordan document that this is a common occurrence. I don't think it is. I rarely see such a thing. It's one thing to <b>ask</b> if someone thinks someone else is a brother in Christ. It's quite another to <b>demand</b> or <b>dare</b> the same.<br />
<br />
This double-talk on Jordan's part is so sad because the accusation takes a virtuous action and calls it evil. Just because someone disagrees about a certain tenet of abolitionism, for example, doesn't mean that they are unregenerate, and I don't know of any abolitionists who think it does. So when we say "We're brothers in Christ, aren't we?", it's an appeal to the commonality of the Gospel and the Word of God to which we all hold. Yet Jordan loves to chide abolitionists for equating the Gospel with abolitionism, <a href="http://pulpitandpen.org/2014/04/01/of-course-abolition-is-not-the-gospel/" target="_blank">even though we don't</a>. And the proof we don't is that we seek common ground with others who profess the Gospel. But Jordan here uses that against us.<br />
<br />
It reminds me of Matthew 11:16“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, 17and say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’ 18“For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ 19“The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.”<br />
<br />
Jordan says: "You are not obligated to affirm or disavow anyone’s
salvation based upon their profession alone."<br />
Fine. Should we give someone the benefit of the doubt, at least, when they profess the Gospel, without evidence that they don't actually love Jesus?<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strong>6. Sub-Christian sects make their beliefs as nebulous and
ill-defined as possible, so as to confuse their opponents and make them
harder to discern.</strong> They claim “straw man” at virtually every
criticism, yet don’t define their convictions clearly enough to be
properly understood. Schismatics do not like confessions or exhaustive
faith statements, because they like to have beliefs that are fluid and
ill-defined. Because their goal is achieving for themselves their own
disciples, they find that a wide and shallow theology is more conducive
to accomplishing their goals, as it is less exclusive as to who can
follow them.</blockquote>
It's hard to take this seriously, since there are probably hundreds of hours of abolitionist lectures online and our myriad websites include tens of thousands of words describing what we believe and why. Many abolitionists are on social media a lot and are immediately available to answer questions almost 24/7. The amount of literature about abolitionism dwarfs the relatively paltry offering of, say, the London Baptist Confession of 1689.<br />
<br />
Further, this objection once again exonerates the LDS Church or the Watchtower. I guess they're not cults.<br />
<br />
And would Jordan go so far as to say that most American churches are cults, since their online professions of faith definitely qualify as "nebulous"? If not, why not?<br />
<br />
Finally, it's laughable to suggest abolitionists seek a wide and shallow theology. That describes the pro-life movement! You know, the thing against whose ideology abolitionism is at war?<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strong>7. Sub-Christian sects commonly twist words and phrases from
their intended meanings (also known as ‘equivocation’) to make
themselves appear orthodox. </strong>For example, Jehovah’s Witnesses
advertise celebrating Easter, but only speak of the crucifixion because
they don’t believe in a bodily resurrection – and yet, people seeing
their fliers at Easter time assume they believe in the resurrection. AHA
speaks of their protests (which include picket signs and disrupting
church services) as mere “exhortation.” Andy Stanley claims he believes
in “inerrancy,” but means that term far different from the way others
understand it. Again, this is to fool people into assuming their
orthodoxy.</blockquote>
The blindness this paragraph indicates is amazing. Jordan regularly redefines words, including "cult" and "organization", just because he has some bizarre motivation to slander abolitionists. He also redefines "<a href="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-nature-of-preaching-and-some.html" target="_blank">preach</a>" like the rest of American churches do, in a very self-serving way I might add, and "<a href="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2015/07/greek-and-imaginary-biblical-support.html" target="_blank">deacon</a>". He also regularly cites Hebrews 13:17 and inserts the word "elder", even though that word does not appear <b>anywhere in the entire epistle</b>. He regularly confuses the concepts of the invisible universal church and visible local churches in his discussions of ecclesiology, to a degree and with a frequency that suggests nothing short of extreme ineptitude.<br />
<br />
Ultimately, what you believe about who gets to define terms will decide whether you think this point has merit. If you think that Muslims get to say that "Jesus" is a mere prophet, if you think that Mormons get to tell you what "monotheism" means, if you think that Jews get to tell you what "Temple" means, then I guess you'll agree with Jordan here. But if you think that it is important to understand what your interlocutor believes before you engage their position so as to avoid erecting a strawman, you'll think that Jordan's point here is foolish. Abolitionists do not believe they are protesting churches. We are <b>exhorting</b> them as fellow Christians. Jordan doesn't like those words, but that is not our problem. He needs to argue, not assume, that his definition is the one that ought to be used. He can <b>assert</b> "equivocation" all he wants; he needs to <b>demonstrate</b> it is equivocation. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strong>8. Sub-Christian sects are dishonest about the details of how their organization or ‘fellowship’ operate.</strong>
They want to purport that their sect is just another church, but in
order to continue the charade, have to conceal the real truth regarding
the details of their organization. Those who follow after them will find
out the details after they’ve already been inducted. Pay close
attention as to how many people leave the organizations once they’ve
joined. Often, the sub-Christian sects have “large back doors” through
which a sizable proportion of their converts leave after being within
them long enough find out their real beliefs.</blockquote>
Oh, does that mean that Jordan has already released or is willing to release at a moment's notice the financial details of his church, his salary, and the expenditures involved in Reformation: Montana? I'd like to see those put out there.<br />
<br />
To what facts would Jordan point to indicate that abolitionists are dishonest about these details? All anyone need do is ask. AHA is not an organization. It is a movement. There are churches and abolitionist societies that adhere to the ideology. They all operate somewhat differently. There exists a store that so far is the main provider of so-called AHA Gear, but that could change in the future. It is run out of Norman, OK, in a retail space that it rents that sometimes our church also uses to assemble and inside of which sometimes we make videos. How is any of this mystical or weird? <br />
<br />
Jordan says: "Pay close
attention as to how many people leave the organizations once they’ve
joined."<br />
<br />
Yes, pay close attention to how many have left Jordan's church.<br />
How a former elder has tried to get Jordan fired. How a former deacon has also caused major trouble for him at his church. How his church is shrinking. Look at how many people who used to blog for P&P no longer do - Kofi Adu-Boahen, Tom Buck, Dustin Germain, Cameron Dobbins, Gene Clyatt, and more. I guess Jordan is part of a cult. Large back door and all.<br />
<br />
Jordan makes a major blunder in saying: "They want to purport that their sect is just another church".<br />
This is <b>wrong wrong wrong wrong</b>. Nobody is saying that AHA is a church! We don't even say it's an organization! We say it <b>isn't</b> one! What we keep saying is that AHA is a movement among people of God, and thus since we are regenerate people of God, it is part of the Bride of Christ that is rising up. Literally nobody is saying that AHA is a church.<br />
<br />
Finally, this seems to strike against one of the mainstream, and actual, definitions of what constitutes a cult. One of the real markers of a cult is the manipulation by leaders and peers of those who might show a wavering allegiance to the cult, so pressure is brought to bear to make sure they don't leave the fold. As a result, cults usually have <b>small</b> back doors. This is further evidence that Jordan is just making this stuff up as he goes.<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strong>9. Sub-Christian sects portray their beliefs as common or ordinary as a means to deflect criticism.</strong>
Theonomists – those who believe the Mosaic judicial law (including
penology) is obligatory for all nations and times – will say that the
term “theonomy” is limited to its etymological definition of “God’s
Law,” when in fact it means far more than that. AHA claims that the
organization is synonymous with abortion abolition, when in the fact the
majority of its work is directed towards converting Christians to
Sectarian Minimalism and following after their leaders. These sects
reduce their beliefs to a simple, often-repeatable mantra that lacks
controversy, hiding their actual beliefs and intentions.</blockquote>
It is very difficult to see how this point can be harmonised with points #1 and #4.<br />
Further, Jordan here condemns the Apostle Paul, of whom it says in Acts 24:<br />
<br />
10When the governor had nodded for him to speak, Paul responded:<br />
“Knowing that for many years you have been a judge to this nation, I cheerfully make my defense, 11since you can take note of the fact that no more than twelve days ago I went up to Jerusalem to worship. 12“Neither in the temple, nor in the synagogues, nor in the city itself did they find me carrying on a discussion with anyone or causing a riot. 13“Nor can they prove to you the charges of which they now accuse me. 14“But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets; 15having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16“In view of this, I also do my best to maintain always a blameless conscience both before God and before men. 17“Now after several years I came to bring alms to my nation and to present offerings; 18in which they found me occupied in the temple, having been purified, without any crowd or uproar. But there were some Jews from Asia— 19who ought to have been present before you and to make accusation, if they should have anything against me. 20“Or else let these men themselves tell what misdeed they found when I stood before the Council, 21other than for this one statement which I shouted out while standing among them, ‘For the resurrection of the dead I am on trial before you today.’”<br />
<br />
Jordan says: "AHA claims that the
organization is synonymous with abortion abolition"<br />
<br />
Not only have abolitionists <b>claimed</b> that, but we have <b>argued</b> for it. Where are Jordan's counterarguments? Or is he twisting the word "abolition" because it sounds cool and he wants to be an abolitionist too, just without the icky parts?<br />
<br />
Jordan says: "when in the fact the
majority of its work is directed towards converting Christians to
Sectarian Minimalism and following after their leaders"<br />
<br />
Jordan has been told that the majority of abolitionists do <b>not</b> hold to an ecclesiology that would match his "Sectarian Minimalism". He has been told numerous times. He does not care.<br />
I challenge anyone to review our website, our material, our videos, and our public proclamations to see how true this is. It isn't true. I personally can't recall a time I discussed ecclesiology for more than a few seconds with anyone on the street! Not even once! Where is Jordan's evidence?<br />
<br />
Finally, the notion that we try to inculcate some sort of unthinking obedience to leaders is beyond laughable. Not even Jordan thinks this! Otherwise he wouldn't attack us for "Sectarian Minimalism"! You can't have both unquestioning obedience to leaders and "Sectarian Minimalism". You have to pick one accusation and stick with it. That Jordan tries to pin both of them on abolitionists is more evidence that he is not arguing in good faith.<br />
In point of fact, "following after their leaders" is precisely what he tells us over and over that we should do. In this matter, he and his church and P&P and PR are a lot more cultic than abolitionists, for they seek to establish and maintain a church structure in which the leaders hold a very powerful sway. Listen to how papist Jordan sounds in <a href="http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=9161622030" target="_blank">this podcast</a> and tell me I'm wrong.<br />
<br />
<br />
Jordan asserts: "These sects
reduce their beliefs to a simple, often-repeatable mantra that lacks
controversy, hiding their actual beliefs and intentions."<br />
<br />
So Jordan evidently believes that abolitionists' real aim is to get everyone to agree with the ecclesiology to which only some within even the body of abolitionists in Norman, OK adhere. We are sure doing a good job of hiding our real aim in that case! Such a good job that it virtually never comes up.<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strong>10. Sub-Christian sects prefer to project themselves as
movements or ideologies rather than as organizations, in order to
insulate themselves from criticism.</strong> Almost every sub-Christian
sect in the last 170 years (since the Restorationist Movement) has
claimed that their sect was just a grass-roots or “organic” movement,
repudiating “organizationalism” or “insitutionalism.” They repudiate the
label of <em>organization</em> (or denomination, etc…) even though they
fit the qualifications of such. This way, they can argue that it is a
move of the Holy Spirit and not the subtle guise of spiritual schemers.
This also insulates the organization from criticism regarding the claims
of more honest members, who are sure to be radicalized and ostracized
for their unorthodoxy. </blockquote>
Or maybe it's because AHA actually is a movement/ideology and not an organization. In what real way does such a setup actually insulate anyone from criticism, anyway? Jordan doesn't seem to have had difficulty figuring out who at least some of the leading / most influential abolitionists are. We get criticised all the time. I'd love some of that insulation I ordered right about now, please. I want my money back.<br />
<br />
Jordan claims AHA fits the qualifications of an organization. How so? Let him bring forth his evidence. Let him show also how Calvinism isn't an organization by the same standards.<br />
<br />
Leaders of institutional churches insulate themselves from criticism all the time by hiding behind their office and their "authority", and Jordan is no exception. This is thus a hypocritical accusation. <br />
<br />
Jordan makes a prediction: "regarding the claims
of more honest members, who are sure to be radicalized and ostracized
for their unorthodoxy."<br />
So... P&P has never tried to insulate itself from criticism by former contributors? Sure it has. This is hypocrisy yet again. But as for AHA, we can only guess what Jordan means by "radicalized". Does he mean that certain members might become even more peacenik and non-violent than they currently are? God forbid such a terrible thing!<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strong>11. Sub-Christian sects have a tendency to rove in packs in
social media, and they call for help from fellow sectarians in the event
of argumentation</strong>. Infiltrating one social media group at a
time, the sect targets seemingly vulnerable subjects and strategically
“run together” to intimidate, annoy, or in some way coerce Christians
into either following after them or risk being abused, shamed or shunned
if they speak out against them. This is a very successful and common
strategy, as it appears the movement is far larger, when it only has a
small handful of highly motivated adherents.</blockquote>
Does Jordan <a href="http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=122814201985" target="_blank">mean</a> like <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23the15&src=typd" target="_blank">#the15</a>? All you need do is listen to some older Pulpit & Pen podcasts to hear Jordan refer repeatedly to how he is able to marshal together social media followers to involve themselves in some social media skirmish. Jordan put together just such a social media takeover of at least one running hashtag (one example: <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23askrickjoyner&src=typd" target="_blank">#askrickjoyner</a>). So I guess Jordan is part of a cult. What hypocrisy on his part! His hypocrisy is furthered by the statement "This is a very successful and common strategy, as it appears the
movement is far larger, when it only has a small handful of highly
motivated adherents." Such is precisely true of P&P and #the15! Does Jordan care? <br />
<br />
In reality, there is nothing wrong with this. So many people have access to social media; why not use it to contend for truth? The fact that most people adhere to false beliefs is no reason not to speak up for that which is true! <br />
<br />
Jordan says: "the sect targets seemingly vulnerable subjects"<br />
Where is his evidence that this is something abolitionists have done and focused on? It just sounds like unsubstantiated well-poisoning.<br />
<br />
Jordan says: "to intimidate, annoy, or in some way coerce Christians
into either following after them or risk being abused, shamed or shunned
if they speak out against them"<br />
As if most people don't look at P&P and PR as exercises in intimidation, annoyance, or coercion that lead to abuse, shame, and shunning. Is Jordan even reading the words he is writing?<br />
And what would be some examples of abolitionists intimidating or coercing people into some sort of action? I'd like to see that. If he means a few people holding signs outside a church building on Sunday morning, making no move to go inside, making no threatening gestures of any kind, all the while vastly outnumbered by the congregation as well as the police officers that the congregation usually summons (in violation of 1 Cor 6, by the way), then there is little to say in response to such limp-wristed foolishness.<br />
<br />
Finally, the Bible tells us that we are to admonish and teach and sharpen each other and help each other to grow in understanding of the faith once delivered to the saints. Often one person will not be able to think of all the pertinent angles to a given question or challenge, which is why it can be helpful for others to chime in and offer their own thoughts. That's just Bible. What's wrong with that? How is it a mark of a cult? Do JWs or LDS do this? I've not met many, but I've seen a lot of Reformed people do it. Are they cultists?<br />
<br />
I've seen a lot of abolitionists get intimidated and coerced to pipe down about AHA in numerous Facebook groups, like the Reformed Pub and the Pulpit Bunker, lest the admins kick the offenders. By Jordan's standard, these admins are cultists.<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<strong>12. Sub-Christian sects often try to win arguments through a victory-by-volume approach to argumentation.</strong>
The schismatics produce an over-abundance of blogs, articles, books,
videos and (in 2016) Internet memes to simply repeat over and again the
same talking points. Schismatics, because they are by nature
law-oriented and works-focused (as opposed to being Gospel-focused) are
highly motivated (their righteousness depends on it), deeply fanatical,
tireless individuals who will dedicate the many hours upon hours
necessary to win a single argument. Their goal, after all, is building
up their organization. Schismatics often believe they’ve won an argument
simply because they’ve used more words.</blockquote>
Such as <a href="http://lightflycreative.com/files/jd/embers.html" target="_blank">spending 114 pages in pdf format</a> to talk about one single debate like Jordan did? That a guy who has made a name for himself by writing long articles and doing regular podcasts could say this with a straight face doesn't speak well of his objectivity. Do P&P and PR repeat over and again the same talking points? Yes, they do. Is that bad? No! But Jordan says it is a mark of a cult, so I guess he is a cultist.<br />
<br />
Jordan asserts: "because they are by nature
law-oriented and works-focused (as opposed to being Gospel-focused)"<br />
<br />
Where is his evidence? His mere say-so should not suffice for any lover of truth.<br />
<br />
Jordan says: "Schismatics often believe they’ve won an argument
simply because they’ve used more words."<br />
<br />
That may be. What is his evidence it is true of any abolitionist?<br />
<br />
Amazingly, Jordan says: "Their goal, after all, is building
up their organization"<br />
<br />
Yet in his post from April 2016 titled "Goodbye", Jordan said this:<br />
"There’s Gospel to preach, souls to save, kids to rear, a wife to adore,
animals to hunt, guns to shoot, lawns to mow and a church to pastor."<br />
<br />
What he means is: He has among familial responsibilities and leisure, <b>an organization to build up</b>. So it's OK for him, but not OK for abolitionists, do I have that right? (And no, AHA is still not an organization.)<br />
<br />
Notably, Jordan is obviously ashamed of this post, because even though it was live on the Internet as of the morning of 24 September 2016, <a href="http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/04/18/goodbye/" target="_blank">the URL</a> now redirects to a totally different article. He is trying to erase the past. Tell me that's not cultic behavior! Fortunately, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160421083742/http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/04/18/goodbye/" target="_blank">the article lives on at archive.org</a> and in my personal hard drive.<br />
<br />
Notice also from the same defunct article:<br />
"If I had one regret (and trust me, I have many), it would be that our polemics has not been seasoned with enough grace."<br />
<br />
It doesn't seem he meant it, for he has moved in the course of just over a month from calling me a "close friend" to a cultist and anathema. That is not how stable people act, and it isn't biblical behavior.<br />
<br />
To sum up, Jordan Hall's article is an ad hoc, self-serving mess and is devoid of any serious love of truth. The heart and mind of a man who could write such a thing is in several ways laid bare by that which he expresses. God help him. I truly greatly fear for the soul of a man I once trusted and counted a friend.Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-38548520405707192242016-09-23T14:25:00.002-05:002016-09-23T14:29:18.043-05:00Cults, Hypocrisy, and Jordan Hall<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<br />
<br />
It's not always clear what is and isn't a cult, but thanks to the keen powers of discernment being exercised by the likes of Jordan Hall these days, those lines of demarcation are being illuminated more and more.<br />
<br />
So now I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints isn't a cult! Thanks Jordan!<br />
<br />
<b>Address:</b> 50 N West Temple, Salt Lake City, UT 84150 (with a branch in my own community as well, at the corner of Elm and Lindsey!)<br />
<b>Year of origin:</b> 1830<br />
<b>Head elder to whom to submit and under whose teaching to sit:</b> Thomas S. Monson<br />
<br />
Hooray for good discerning skills!<br />
<br />
I can imagine how this conversation might have gone some time ago: <br />
<br />
"Hey, early Christian in the year 84 AD! Tell me where your church meets and who your elders are!"<br />
"Um, who are you?"<br />
"CULT!!!!!!!!1111"<br />
<br />
Speaking of which, Jordan's church has been around for ~30 years, and yet he likes to speak of individual visible local churches as though they were the institutions that Christ founded... ~2000 years ago. One can only guess at how Jordan thinks to resolve this -ahem- <i><b>slight</b></i> chronological discrepancy. It is doubtful that Jesus ever set foot in North America, still more doubtful that if He had, He spoke to a bunch of lily-white oilmen in the eastern Montana prairie, so as to found The Church Christ Founded®<b> </b>near Sidney, MT. So how does Jordan's church derive its authority to claim that it is The Church Christ Founded®?<br />
<br />
One guesses it is because it was planted by someone else who had authority to plant churches (whatever that means; I'd like to see that notion derived from Scripture). But what about that planter? Was his church planted by someone who had authority to do so and how did he obtain the authority to plant churches? After all, Jordan <a href="http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=9161622030" target="_blank">is on record saying</a> that Jesus gave the keys of binding and loosing to the church, by which Jordan means local churches and not the apostles or the invisible universal church.<br />
<br />
So, presumably Jordan can trace the succession of church planters all the way back to Peter and the other apostles. I'd like to see that list. I guess it would be pretty long since his church was only founded ~30 years ago. That's around 1950 years, give or take, to account for! Yikes. And of course, one wonders what would set Jordan's own doctrine of apostolic succession apart from that of Rome or the Eastern Conciliarist churches. He'll say that they're antichrist and so they don't get to play, but who is he to make such an authoritative declaration?<br />
<br />
This is what happens when you get addicted to authority rather than truth. Strangely, we've seen it in the Reformed camp, which should be the bulwark against Romanism, yet they have proven very susceptible to repeat one of Rome's main errors. Even more strangely, we've seen it from the likes of Jon Speed and of Jordan Hall, who pretty much hate each other. But all can unite and agree to hate abolitionists. We make all sorts of people uncomfortable. Like Jesus did.<br />
<br />
But if one needed any further signal as to Jordan's instability, one need look little further than <a href="http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/04/18/goodbye/" target="_blank">this post from April 2016</a>, only five months ago, in which he said this:<br />
<br />
<span><span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g"><span><span>"The
podcast and Polemics Report, which takes hardly no time from me at all,
for now will continue, at least until I tire of that, too. Everything
else stops. Now. And I sleep well, having fought the fight. I fought it
imperfectly. But I fought it. I’m pretty much done, now."</span><br /><br /><span>And yet here we find him enmeshed in a very extensive way in frequent social media accusations against abolitionists. Not that they actually share much real information; approximately 40% of the words he uses are "cult" or "cultist". He doesn't say much else. But the point is that he posts very frequently. It's like he never left. Or changed his mind radically in a few months' time. He was pretty much done. Now he isn't. </span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span><span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g"><span><span>I pray his double-mindedness will cease, and soon. </span></span></span></span></span></span> Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-22650408010324449342016-09-12T14:51:00.001-05:002016-09-12T14:51:53.954-05:00Abortion: The Evil of Our Age (Revised)Improving on the talk I delivered with the same title some time ago, here is what I hope to be a definitive treatment of the topic.<br />
<br />
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2MPi4_OoYpk" width="560"></iframe><br />Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-17224771684446241922016-09-02T10:53:00.000-05:002016-09-02T10:53:46.952-05:00Jon Speed vs Shane Dodson<a href="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2013/05/there-is-nothing-that-can-be-done-to.html" target="_blank">Jon Speed</a> in <a href="https://www.facebook.com/BabiesAMH/posts/301686049964977?comment_id=1418984&offset=0&total_comments=13" target="_blank">May 2013</a>:<br />
<br />
"There is nothing that can be done to make this a true church."<br />
<br />
(Referring to the so-called "Door of Hope" church in Norman, OK, the church of which I myself am now a part.)<br />
<br />
Shane Dodson now:<br />
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en">
<div dir="ltr" lang="en">
<a href="https://twitter.com/paperhymn">@paperhymn</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/DeanChris">@DeanChris</a> If his church preaches the gospel, administers the sacraments & carries out discipline, it is a true NT church.</div>
— Shane (@PreachingChrist) <a href="https://twitter.com/PreachingChrist/status/771702997759864833">September 2, 2016</a></blockquote>
And my church does indeed do those things. Awesome! Shane Dodson Seal of Approval achieved!<br />
<br />
Also, the vast majority of American churches never preach the Gospel since <a href="http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-nature-of-preaching-and-some.html" target="_blank">preaching is not the action of standing in a building and speaking to the same believers over and over again</a>.<br />
<br />
<br />Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-88836036155622842016-08-28T15:58:00.000-05:002016-08-29T13:37:47.294-05:00Ephesians 4 and the abdication of Christian responsibility via the "fivefold ministry"<blockquote class="tr_bq">
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors (shepherds) and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ...</blockquote>
<br />
So read verses 11-12 of Ephesians 4. Commonly Western Christians take this passage as a confirmation of the ecclesiological structures in the midst of which they have grown up and which enjoy a remarkable ubiquity across denominational lines. Almost everyone takes for granted, for example, that "pastor" or that which is its de facto equivalent (like priest, or elder) is an office instituted by the New Testament for local churches. To paraphrase my friend Matthew Martellus, by "office", we might mean a position whose character is largely invariant with respect to the individual who fills that position. In other words, an "office" functions the same way (more or less) regardless of who is filling said office and which is generally independent of the people who fill them, which is why they have rules and procedures of succession. <br />
<br />
When one asks for scriptural support for the idea of ecclesiastical offices, usually the first passage cited in response is Ephesians 4:10-16. Smuggled along for the ride is the idea that these "offices", or at least one or two of them, were meant by God to remain in place unto perpetuity in most every instance of local church, from the writing of the New Testament until the <i>Parousia</i>. But is this the case? Let us examine the passage in detail.<br />
<br />
<h3>
Verses 1-6 - a call to and explanation of unity</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
1Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, 2with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, 3being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.</blockquote>
The regenerate have been called to the new birth, to regeneration and indwelling of the Holy Spirit. By His movement and power, He has grafted people into the True Vine and made them partakers of His divine nature, adopting us as children and giving us union with Christ so that we are His Body. This is our calling - the high calling of Jesus. Paul urges us in v1 to walk in a manner worthy of this calling. Humility, gentleness, patience, and tolerance are essential for the loving creation and maintenance of unity within the different human beings that constitute the Body of Christ. We are to bear with each other in love and maintain true peace, reflecting between each other the peace that Jesus has instituted between us and God and within our own hearts. With that in mind, we move to the next:<br />
<br />
<h3>
Verses 7-10 - God gives immeasurable grace</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
7But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN.” 9(Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)</blockquote>
Though we are united with Christ and with each other through Christ, we are to exercise the different gifts that God gave. This is why unity must be carefully preserved, as the differences between people can lead to conflict. We must take thoughts captive to obedience to Christ when tempted to divide from other believers. God gave gifts to His people through Christ's ascension and the subsequent giving of the Holy Spirit to comfort, guide, and indwell us. As a matter of fact, 1 Corinthians 12:11 informs us that it is the Holy Spirit Himself who distributes these gifts as He wills.<br />
<br />
Note that the word used here is "gifts", not "office". The Greek of the New Testament does not use a word that can be translated directly in such a way as to match the English word "office". The NASB uses "office" <a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=office&t=NASB#s=s_primary_0_1" target="_blank">four times in the New Testament</a> . Twice it refers to the "office of priest", which phrase is covered by <a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2405&t=NASB" target="_blank">one Greek word</a>. In Acts 1, Judas' "office" (that is, "<a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1984&t=NASB" target="_blank"><i>episkope</i></a>") was to be transferred to someone else to fulfill prophecy, and then interestingly, 1 Timothy 3, the translators insert "office of" where the same word ("<a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1984&t=NASB" target="_blank"><i>episkope</i></a>") appears, but don't stop with "office", going on to add "...of overseer", thus translating the same word with a significantly different expression at 1 Tim 3 than that which they used anywhere else in the New Testament. At any rate, if God had intended to communicate the idea that in Ephesians 4 He was instituting something like what Matthias ended up fulfilling, He could have used "<a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1984&t=NASB" target="_blank"><i>episkope</i></a>" or something. Instead, what we see in Ephesians 4 is <a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1325&t=NASB" target="_blank">δίδωμι</a> ("gave"), <a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1431&t=NASB" target="_blank">δωρεά</a> ("gift"), and <a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1390&t=NASB" target="_blank">δόμα</a> (again, "gift"), not to mention "grace" that was given.<br />
<br />
<h3>
Verses 11-13 - the gifts God gave and why He gave them</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
11And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. </blockquote>
God gives gifts for a purpose. What is that purpose for which He gave these gifts of people as apostles, prophets, evangelists, and pastors/teachers? Verse 12 - for the equipping of the saints. Equipping for what? For the work of service, and for the building up of the body of Christ. We might presume that is perpetual enough, but let's look further down the passage as we continue. Paul goes on to indicate that there is a set of end goals that we are to attain via these gifts, in verse 13 and following:<br />
--unity of the faith<br />
--knowledge of the Son of God<br />
--maturity<br />
--the full Christ-like stature<br />
<br />
Those are good things because they make us like Jesus, of course, but there is more to the story.<br />
<br />
<h3>
Verses 14-16 - the desired result</h3>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
14As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, 16from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.</blockquote>
Once we have attained to unity, knowledge, maturity, and full stature as mentioned above, there will be tangible, visible results in every individual and group of individuals who have attained thereto. Namely:<br />
--no longer children<br />
--no longer tossed around by every wind of doctrine<br />
--or by men's trickery or crafty scheming<br />
--speaking the truth in love<br />
--growing up in all aspects to Christ-likeness<br />
<br />
And then, notice what happens at this point, which leads into my central contention - when this whole body in question, which we could say for short is an assembly of Christians in a particular area, has attained to these things, then each individual part exercises his or her gifts properly, in love, and <b>causes the body to build itself up</b>. But what was the point of the "fivefold ministry" as described earlier in the passage? Precisely that - to build up the body and equip it. Equip it for what? To build itself up in love. Thus we transition from a few people in a given body given by God to serve as examples and train less mature believers in that assembly... <b>with the goal of turning them into fully-functioning believers</b> who build each other up in love, every member exercising his/her gift(s) to build up everyone else.<br />
<br />
Notice that this is what "we are to" do. That is a command - grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head - Christ. The whole body partakes of His life-giving sap and thus builds itself up by every part building up the other parts. Mutual love and benefit, rather than a top-down hierarchy.<br />
<br />
<h3>
"Until we all attain" </h3>
Let's go back and check another angle from the previous section. Notice that in v11-13 "He gave...for ...equipping (and) building up of the body of Christ; <b>until</b> we all attain to" the aforementioned goals. Why does it say "until" rather than something else like "and continuing on past our attainment of" those things? <br />
<br />
The word <a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3360&t=NASB" target="_blank">μέχρι</a> is translated "until" here. At the linked page are listed all the occurrences of this word in the New Testament. <b>Most NT occurrences** indicate that the action ceases after the event <a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3360&t=NASB" target="_blank">μέχρι</a> (until) which the previous state of affairs obtained. <a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3360&t=NASB" target="_blank">μέχρι</a> is used in the New Testament to indicate cessation. </b>Let's check a few examples:<br />
<br />
<i>--Mark 13:30 - Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.</i><br />
Will the generation pass away after those things are all fulfilled? Yes.<br />
<br />
<i>--Acts 20:7 - On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.</i><br />
Did Paul keep talking after midnight? No; he stopped at midnight. <br />
<br />
<i>--1 Timothy 6:14 - that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ...</i><br />
This exhortation won't mean much in the New Jerusalem, the final resurrected state. <br />
<br />
And Ephesians 4:13 says that God gave those gifts <b>until </b>we attain to the desired goals, and we ought to expect that the situation will change/cease after the scenario that precedes <a href="https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3360&t=NASB" target="_blank">μέχρι</a> has completed. So if you're equipped for the work of service and are mature and are building up people in the body, then that's the point of those gifts, the point for them is fulfilled, and something better has come - a mature believer. And when a whole assembly achieves this maturity, as we are all commanded to strive for, those gifts are fulfilled and are unnecessary, for that body is building itself up in love, in all aspects. Those gifts' utility has come to an end in this case, which is Paul's express hope for the believers in Ephesus.<br />
<br />
Even though not every single usage of μέχρι does indeed connote a cessation, the context of the passage does not support a competing interpretation. Are we supposed to believe that the Apostle Paul meant to communicate that once we attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of
God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the
fullness of Christ, that nothing changes? Why then did he entirely neglect to mention the utility and purpose of these gifts once maturity is attained? If he thought that the gifts bring us to a purpose and then that purpose is reached, and then the gifts' purpose morphs into something else, he does not seem to have told anyone what that second purpose is.<br />
<br />
One may argue that<b> </b>nobody ever actually attains to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of
God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the
fullness of Christ. In that case, what good are these gifts, since the purpose of God fails? And what good are the gifted people, since they themselves are not mature? How can they help anyone else? Such an argument proves too much.<br />
<br />
<h3>
Modern American Churches</h3>
Let's compare that to the more prevalent current situation in virtually all local assemblies. Almost nobody functions like this. Few people zealously reach for full maturity but rather are dependent on the pastor and leadership, who, let's be honest, have numerous vested interests in keeping the laity in a state of perpetual immaturity. The few Christians whom the rest of the people identify as having a zeal for God are pushed inexorably to seminary. If they know an evangelist (which "office" itself is suspiciously* very rare compared to how many self-proclaimed "pastors" there are out there), the rest of the church people generally content themselves with patting him on the back and affirming his "calling" but show no desire to join and help him; the best he is usually able to get is a small team of people who "hold the rope" for him in prayer. And even then, most of the time the "evangelist" just travels around and delivers lectures to gatherings of mostly church people in other localities rather than going out consistently and frequently to evangelise lost people.<br />
<br />
The presence of "evangelist" in the list of gifts is, by the way, another good reason to doubt the reliability of the generally-accepted modern American interpretation of this passage. There are tens of thousands of pastors out there. If there are hundreds of evangelists, there aren't a lot of hundreds. Is that because pastors are more needed than evangelists? In a nation where less than 10% of the population is credibly born again, that seems unlikely. Even if they were, are 100 pastors needed for every one evangelist? Could it rather be that getting a job as a pastor appeals more to the wallet and ego of people who just sank 3+ years of their lives in seminary than taking on the role of constantly bringing the Gospel to the world of lost people who hate it? It is likely in my considered opinion that the spate of pastors in the modern American churches is present largely because of something other than "gifting"; if it were gifting from the Holy Spirit, I'd expect to see a lot more evangelists and a lot more pastors who strongly encourage and assist those evangelists. We see the opposite, however.<br />
<br />
Church life is centered around a precious few, who lead, cast vision, set up the Sunday rigmarole, and approve all the inward-facing programs into which the passive congregants are funneled to give them the illusion of business in kingdom work. Most everyone sits and soaks during the main assembly times. Real fellowship and accountability are in most cases illusory. Very few grow in real ways because to grow you have to exercise. The leadership all too rarely leads by example; rather they lead by position and by saying lofty words up on stage on Sunday morning. Thus people don't fulfill the Great Commission; how can they teach others to obey all Christ commanded when they're not trying to do so themselves? Thus whole assemblies refuse to please God. Thus the main source of light in our culture is incredibly dim.<br />
<br />
Ephesians 4:10-16 is often used to justify this situation, and few are in a position to challenge that interpretation because they have already abdicated their responsibility to accurately handle the word of truth, which would show them (if they had eyes to see) that the pastor in their life is telling them a self-serving falsehood. <br />
<br />
<h3>
Are You Equipped or Aren't You?</h3>
But in reality, according to what we've seen, if you're equipped for the work of service and the other elements of the mature person are descriptive of you, the gifts God gave to bring about that maturity in you have been fulfilled. Now, to maintain, <b>you are to build up the other people around you as they build you up</b>, growing them into maturity and maintaining and sharpening maturity. Further, one who is mature in the faith has a good understanding of how to carry out and has experience in carrying out the functions that apostles/prophets/evangelists/pastors/teachers do. They repeat the words of God. They counsel people to forsake sin and forgive each other. They speak prophetically into the culture and into sinful situations. They evangelise regularly. They teach and admonish others and themselves are taught and admonished. <br />
<br />
<b>The body thus builds itself up </b>because they are mature and they speak the truth in love and they are equipped for service/worship, they are not tossed about, each part works properly, etc. When new believers come into fellowship, the body as a whole builds them up. Of course everyone needs sharpening, and the body is where that happens. As new believers are still children and immature, they need a more pastoral role so certain parts of the body take on that role vis-à-vis that immature person to make them mature, and then they gradually withdraw from that sort of oversight role as the person matures and functions as s/he is supposed to within the body.<br />
<br />
None of this should be taken to mean that I necessarily think that the Spirit later withdraws His gifts once bestowed, but then again, while it is often taken for granted that these are permanent from conversion until death, is such a thing expressly taught in the New Testament? I can't think of a passage that says so, and there is some scriptural evidence that this might be the case. For example, consider Acts 19:11-12 - "God was performing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were even carried from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out." Compare that occurrence relatively early in his ministry to his inability to heal later in life, related in 2 Timothy 4:20 - "Erastus remained at Corinth, but Trophimus I left sick at Miletus." Or consider the case of Acts 14:11-18 in which Paul, who spoke "in tongues more than all of you" (1 Corinthians 14:18) seems unable to understand the words of the people of Lystra for quite some time, unaware that they were affirming that Barnabas and Paul were gods of the Greek pantheon. Finally, let us ask ourselves why 1 Corinthians 14:1 exhorts us to earnestly desire especially the gift of prophecy, as if we did not have it before. Thus there is scriptural evidence to lead us to the conclusion that spiritual gifts may not be as fixed as we often think of them.<br />
<br />
That being the case, what in the Scripture would make us believe that these gifts of, say, pastor and evangelist are perpetual, especially when we have evidence that they are in fact given for a purpose and that God intends for that purpose to be fulfilled and when we see in the American churches plenty of demonstration that the perpetual-pastor / fivefold ministry teaching has as a primary effect the neutralisation of the salt that the people of God are supposed to be?<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
However, two men, whose names were Eldad and Medad, had remained in the camp. They were listed among the elders, but did not go out to the tent. Yet the Spirit also rested on them, and they prophesied in the camp. A young man ran and told Moses, “Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp.” Joshua son of Nun, who had been Moses’ aide since youth, spoke up and said, “Moses, my lord, stop them!” But Moses replied, “Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the Lord’s people were prophets and that the Lord would put His Spirit on them!” <br />
--Numbers 11:26-29</blockquote>
<br />
<i><span style="font-size: x-small;"><b>*</b>Being an evangelist doesn't sound as attractive to people as being a pastor, because it usually invokes the spectre of casting aside fear of man and regularly going out to engage lost people you don't know with the Gospel, which is a fearful thing and can lead to confrontation, debate, and sometimes persecution. Further, it is a well-paid gig less commonly than being a pastor is. Tons of people claim to be "called" to be a pastor, and <a href="http://pulpitandpen.org/2014/05/21/twisting-the-calling/" target="_blank">I don't believe those "callings" are legitimate</a>; they are not from God but are from another source. I think that if God were in the business of doing what everyone says He is, He would call a much higher evangelist:pastor ratio than is currently evidenced in American Christianity. Which leads to my suspicion that "the calling of pastor" is something that most people simply imagine is the case.</span></i><br />
<br />
<i><span style="font-size: x-small;">**This article originally read "every single one", but after publication I was made aware that the readout from Blue Letter Bible upon which I had relied for my analysis had not displayed all NT occurrences of "mechri". It appears that there are two or three that do indeed indicate continuing action after the "until" point is reached. For this reason, I have adjusted my argument. </span></i>Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-52811145834166338582016-08-28T12:05:00.002-05:002016-08-28T12:05:58.051-05:00Andrew Rappaport thinks abortion is no big deal<div aria-label="Comment reply" class="UFIRow UFIComment _4oep UFIPartialBorder" data-ft="{"tn":"R0"}" role="article" style="background-color: #f6f7f9; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-color: rgb(221, 223, 226); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; border-top-width: 0px; color: #1d2129; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16.08px; margin: 0px 12px 0px -2px; padding: 0px 4px 4px 8px; position: relative; word-wrap: break-word;">
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<span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}">No one in history has abortion been a definition of the church so aha need to make this case. Since no where in Scripture is abortion ever an issue. Child sacrifice is always that the killing as part of the worship to a false deity and that is not abortion though aha twists it to make that argument<br /><br />I am sharing because as you can see here AHA is attempting to redefine the church to justify the sin of protesting the church so that they can call these church false churches. I am calling aha to repent</span><div class="UFITranslatedText" style="border-left-color: rgb(220, 222, 227); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; margin-top: 2px; padding-left: 8px;">
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<a class=" UFICommentActorName" data-ft="{"tn":";"}" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=150750095038995&extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Atrue%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/Rhology-150750095038995/?rc=p" style="color: #365899; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Rhology</a> <span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}">\\Abortion has NEVER been the definition of the church.\\<br /><br />Nobody is saying that. One reason is that I am not entirely sure what this statement is intended to communicate.<br /><br />\\Since no where in Scripture is abortion ever an issue. Child sacrifice is always that the killing as part of the worship to a false deity and that is not abortion though aha twists it to make that argument \\<br /><br /><a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=505081831&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/t.russell.hunter?hc_location=ufi" style="color: #365899; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">T. Russell Hunter</a> corrected you on this before, and so did <a class="profileLink" data-hovercard="/ajax/hovercard/hovercard.php?id=1133388964&extragetparams=%7B%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi%22%7D" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/jordan.hall.5836?hc_location=ufi" style="color: #365899; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">Jordan Hall</a>, for crying out loud.<br />Psalm 106: 37They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters *****to the demons*****,<br /><br />38And shed innocent blood,<br />The blood of their sons and their daughters,<br />Whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan;<br />And the land was polluted with the blood.<br /><br />39Thus they became unclean in their practices,<br />And played the harlot in their deeds.<br /><br />40Therefore the anger of the LORD was kindled against His people<br />And He abhorred His inheritance.<br /><br />Also, just b/c someone murders someone else in the name of or for the commendation of a false god doesn't mean it isn't murder. This point is not only weirdly obscure, it's also totally irrelevant.<br /><br />\\AHA is attempting to redefine the church\\<br /><br />I totally disagree. We are calling the church to be biblical and to hate the things God hates and love the things God loves.<br />He commands we love our neighbors as ourselves. Who is more in need of love than our preborn neighbors?<br /><br />\\the sin of protesting the church\\<br /><br />You keep saying this but never proving it. I keep challenging you to debate me on the topic and you make fun of me and mock me.<br />Further, you say "the" church. Which one? Do you mean "the sin of protesting churches"? It's OK to stand outside literally NO churches in the USA to call them to repentance?<br />Also, you disingenuously continue to use loaded words that we reject, like "protest", thus burning a strawman, which shows how weak your position is.<br /><br />\\the gospel not a non-issue from a biblical perspective.\\<br /><br />1) Abolitionists love and proclaim the Gospel all the time. Read our website.<br />2) So if a church believes the Gospel, everyone should just ignore any other sin that church may ever commit or be involved in.<br />3) Did you just say that child sacrifice is a non-issue from a biblical perspective?<br /><br />\\when that was never the issue in the Bible\\<br /><br />So... child sacrifice was never the issue in the Bible.<br />What about loving your neighbor as yourself?</span><div class="UFITranslatedText" style="border-left-color: rgb(220, 222, 227); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2px; margin-top: 2px; padding-left: 8px;">
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Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-76409600550297874952016-06-27T15:46:00.000-05:002017-09-21T16:01:18.117-05:00The Supreme Court Does the Pro-Life Movement a Favor<i>*Editorial Note: Pulpit & Pen continues in unrepentant sin and
enabling of the ongoing sin of Jordan Hall. While it is my
understanding that P&P does not plan to take down the content I
contributed, any role I can play in reducing their traffic until they
repent, I will. Thus I migrate this article here. </i><br />
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The well-heeled professionals who lead the pro-life movement know what’s coming. This is how the game works: the pro-life leaders shamelessly raise money to “fight abortion” from the pew-sitting <i>hoi polloi</i>, then they use some of that money, (after making sure their yearly conferences, <a href="http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/01/22/russell-moore-prior-and-the-sham-of-the-pro-life-movement/">posh mutual-back-patting sessions in fancy hotels</a>, and beer-soaked after-parties are funded), to lobby self-absorbed God-hating politicians who will listen to whoever’s dollar bills yell loudest. Those politicians then (occasionally) pass laws designed to make sure that mothers who murder their children can be taken more easily to a nearby hospital if the hit man’s knife slips. The pro-life leaders trumpet their victory. Church people donate more money. The pro-aborts grow bolder and richer while abandoning their junky old “clinics” in favor of fully modern, glitzy compounds whose entrances are (by design) that much farther from the public right-of-way. They comply with all relevant legal regulations, and all in all are a much less intimidating and forbidding presence in the community–and to the murderous mothers who feel the need to rip their child’s face off.<br />
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Then months later, a federal court or even <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/06/27/supreme-court-strikes-down-texas-abortion-law.html">SCOTUS strikes down the law</a>, which allows the pro-life leaders to kick off yet another round of pleas for donations, but maybe this time with the tagline “EMERGENCY!!! Supreme Court strikes down Texas law! Give today to turn back the tide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”<br />
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Rinse and repeat.<br />
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A major plank of the hypocrisy of the pro-life movement is this: They say with their mouth that their goal is to abolish abortion entirely. They say they want to get there gradually. Sometimes they even show their hand to a surprising extent, saying things like “The devil got our country to this point by baby steps. We have to roll it back the same way”, (<i>because as we all know, the Bible teaches that imitating the devil is a good and wise strategy.</i>) But then their actions deliberately produce the precise opposite result – abolition gets further and further distant. Meanwhile, the consciences of the people of God are falsely assuaged (Jeremiah 8:5-12). The professionals have this under control. They just need another $100. Victory is just around the corner! Just need a couple more conservative SCOTUS judges!<br />
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Get real! Victory is <i>not</i> around the corner. We are <i>not</i> winning. Here’s a real and recent example – George W Bush had a relatively conservative SCOTUS and a fully Republican House and Senate. He allowed child sacrifice to expand in this nation. Trust not in <br />
<del>princes</del>Supreme Court justices. <b>Your</b> voice is needed.<br />
What is needed is state-wide consensus to <b>abolish</b> child sacrifice <b>entirely</b>, and then for the state government to <b>ignore</b> SCOTUS’ perversion of the Constitution when they strike down abolition.<br />
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Here’s the thing, though – the steel in the spine necessary to defy the federal beast won’t come in conjunction with regulation. It will only come when people repent and decide to do the right thing, period, come what may. The federal beast will strike back. They will cut funding. They will possibly send troops to impose the will of the wicked Washington DC elites against the will of the people. Will we back down at that point, or will we stand firm?<br />
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I can tell you this – nobody is going to risk that sort of confrontation when that which is in balance is some flimsy Swiss-cheese regulation that mandates that surgical abortuaries have hallways that are three feet wider than they currently are, and which say “you have to go to a place with wide hallways, <b>and then it’s OK to murder your baby</b>“. The spiritual power to look an evil government right in the eye and call them to repent and serve the true King, to trust in God, and then to say “But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up” (Daniel 3:18), will not come from compromising legislation that tries to use the devil’s methods against him, as if were wiser than the accuser who has been in the business of deceiving wiser and much longer-lived people than we for ~7000 years.<br />
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SCOTUS has just given the pro-life movement another opportunity to realise how not only their approach, but also the presuppositions that fuel it, are entirely backward. They trust in politicians while feigning allegiance to Jesus. Here God brings good out of evil by handing them yet another chance to do the right thing and take up abolition. Will they take it? Or will they waste another year and another million dead babies handing out “Pro-Life Leader of the Year” awards to each other?<br />
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Now therefore, O kings, show discernment; take warning, O judges of the earth.Worship the LORD with reverence and rejoice with trembling. Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way, for His wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in Him!<br />
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–Psalm 2:10-12Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-977171934823983942016-06-24T14:23:00.002-05:002017-05-05T08:18:28.153-05:00The Day Steve Gaines Prayed For Me<i>*Editorial Note: Pulpit & Pen continues in unrepentant sin and enabling of the ongoing sin of Jordan Hall. While it is my understanding that P&P does not plan to take down the content I contributed, any role I can play in reducing their traffic until they repent, I will. Thus I migrate this article here. </i><br />
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In late October 2014, over 150 abolitionists gathered at the invitation of a local Baptist church in Memphis, TN to preach the Gospel, call the city to repent of child sacrifice, and build the kingdom of God. I was privileged to be among them. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVmh5AVUSFk">We reached out to the whole University of Memphis</a>. <a href="https://www.facebook.com/AbolishHumanAbortion/photos/a.152089084857114.37654.146273698771986/1116174605115219/?type=3&permPage=1">We called the culture to repent of hypocrisy at the Martin Luther King Jr Civil Rights Museum and Monument</a>. We <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO_1oCNk1fA">marched in solidarity with our preborn brothers and sisters</a> from there down Beale Street. I’ve forgotten by now more things than I remember we did.<br />
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I don’t know how many Gospel tracts we distributed that week. I don’t know how many people we talked to, how many times we engaged in open-air preaching. There is no telling how many babies were saved during the hours we were at the death pit, how many young souls were pricked unto repentance when we engaged students at area high schools. No telling whether the young woman whose <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB-8Qtt6kes">boyfriend I rebuked</a> and whom my friend Tim exhorted did indeed do the right thing and repent of their fornication. Whether the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhY70uLIcdc">young Methodist college student I talked to</a> has been living a sold-out life for the glory of God since that day. Whether the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjTzRim_H4c">atheist whose worldview I shattered into absurdity</a> ever examined the matter further.<br />
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That’s how it is when you spread the seed of the Word of God far and wide – most of the time you don’t get to see it sprout, grow, or bear fruit.<br />
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<blockquote class="tr_bq">
What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.</blockquote>
–1 Corinthians 3:5-9<br />
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We were 150 or so. Most of us sacrificed, traveling significant distances to gather in Memphis as the body of Christ to bless the city with the Gospel of Jesus. Brother John who lives in Memphis contacted Bellevue Baptist Church (with plenty of notice ahead of time, mind you) to ask them for help in engaging the city in these outreach activities while we were there and for help in sidewalk counseling outside the Memphis abortuaries going forward.<br />
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I saw a lot of things that week, some I’d never seen before. Here’s what I did not see – one single member of Bellevue Baptist Church standing with us or even doing anything similar at any of the many well-populated public places where we ministered. That’s the same thing that the brethren who live in Memphis don’t see – Bellevue Baptist involved in any tangible way in the abolition of child sacrifice, bringing the Word of God into conflict with this tremendously huge evil. <br />
<a href="https://i2.wp.com/pulpitandpen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/SteveGaines.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="SteveGaines" class="alignnone size-full wp-image-11335" data-recalc-dims="1" height="400" sizes="(max-width: 293px) 100vw, 293px" src="https://i2.wp.com/pulpitandpen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/SteveGaines.jpg?resize=293%2C395" srcset="https://i2.wp.com/pulpitandpen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/SteveGaines.jpg?w=293 293w, https://i2.wp.com/pulpitandpen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/SteveGaines.jpg?resize=223%2C300 223w" width="296" /></a>On Sunday morning, November 2, 2014, we put on identical T-shirts and attended one of the morning services of Bellevue. Most of us stood when everyone else stood and sat when everyone else sat (though I sat and mourned the whole time). We were regaled with skillful rock music posing as “worship”. We were exhorted to give sacrificially so that the church building could renovate one of the entrance foyers, the posh one through which I had entered that morning. We listened as Steve Gaines told us that <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW7SqPTEZbk">Tennessee Amendment 1</a> would be a good thing because it would “open the door for informed consent for women and girls considering abortion, inspection or regulation of abortion facilities, and hospitalization requirement for later term abortions” (<a href="http://www.yeson1tn.org/why_yes_on_1">source</a>).<br />
That is to say, altars to Molech have to be close to a hospital and have wide-enough hallways and be clean. Murderous hitmen have to have a certain diploma before they are allowed to murder children. Murderous mothers have to wait a few days before they rip apart their own flesh and blood. And the pro-life movement cheers and their heroes bolster their prestige.<br />
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After the “service”, we met members and engaged in great dialogue. We handed out the booklet, “Does God Hate Our Worship?” We exhorted them to read and consider our message and their responsibility seriously. We were generally told that <a href="https://www.facebook.com/AbolishHumanAbortion/photos/a.152089084857114.37654.146273698771986/812634688802547/?type=3&theater">the church was too occupied polishing the brass of their south foyer and didn’t have enough resources at that time to get involved in “politics”</a>. Several individual members were <a href="https://www.facebook.com/AbolishHumanAbortion/photos/a.523042284428457.1073741826.146273698771986/793086334090716/?type=3&theater">interested in what we were saying</a>. Then the police came and threatened to arrest us if we didn’t leave. And they did arrest one of our number for no reason. <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world?</blockquote>
–1 Corinthians 6:1-2<br />
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<a href="https://www.facebook.com/AbolishHumanAbortion/videos/784557848276898/">On the way out</a> we sang <a href="https://www.facebook.com/AbolishHumanAbortion/videos/784329231633093/">praise to our God</a> who sits on the throne.<br />
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Before the police arrived, however, a few brothers of mine and I approached Steve Gaines, who was flanked by no fewer than three members of his professional security personnel. Which is, you know, exactly how the Bible says the shepherd of a flock of God is supposed to act. We pled with him to engage his people to challenge the kingdom of darkness in his city with the Gospel. We asked him to lead his people to where the lost people are, where the babies are being taken to the slaughter, to worship God by practicing true religion of caring for the fatherless and establishing justice and righteousness (James 1:27, Amos 5:21-24, Isaiah 1:10-17). In essence we were pointing out that Bellevue was a big multi-million dollar complex that was already doing its own thing. That so far they hadn’t made time for all that “love your neighbor” business, that they’d been about the work of building Their Church.<br />
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Gaines said with his mouth, “I agree with all that you are saying and I pray that God blesses your work and your ministry.” Then he put his hand on my shoulder and prayed to the same effect. I had no idea at the time how effective a tactic this was at shutting down all conversation while simultaneously establishing patronizing dominance over the earnest interlocutor (me). It worked. He said “Amen” and turned away, already on to the next task of administering the job of CEO of Bellevue Baptist, LLC.<br />
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After we came and went, nothing has changed. Bellevue remains a polished tomb. Gaines has made even more of a name for himself. And God’s wrath grows against American churchianity.Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-16930189503866824542016-06-20T13:43:00.003-05:002017-05-05T08:19:11.628-05:00Steve Gaines Tampers With God’s Word – Practices Cunning, Disgraceful, Underhanded Ways<i>*Editorial Note: Pulpit & Pen continues in unrepentant sin and enabling of the ongoing sin of Jordan Hall. While it is my understanding that P&P does not plan to take down the content I contributed, any role I can play in reducing their traffic until they repent, I will. Thus I migrate this article here. </i><br />
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<blockquote class="tr_bq">
For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.</blockquote>
–2 Corinthians 2:17<br />
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<blockquote class="tr_bq">
We have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.</blockquote>
–2 Corinthians 4:2<br />
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For at least two decades or so, evangelical churches that want to aim for “relevance” and that elusive hip factor to attract goats and infant lambs to their nice comfortable buildings (or “pretty much all evangelical churches” for short) in order to expose them to 30 minutes of feel-good motivational lectures and an opportunity to drop some Harriet Tubmans in the plate have done so by making the other 50 minutes of the “experience” or “service” all about pandering to that which they think might be enjoyable to lost people. And one of the most obvious ways to do that is to gin up the concert factor – get some skilled musicians and have them spend hours per week practicing (instead of sharing the Gospel or loving their neighbor) so you have a strong selling point for the next invitee or recipient of a cool stylised invitation postcard in the mail.<br />
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As noted many times by many observers of this evangelical trend, their music and catchiness are usually at best 3-5 years behind the times, sometimes more. Thus you have Coldplay music before the service begins, for example. More recently, though, we are seeing these same kinds of religious corporations dip into the treasures to be found in the deeper history of worldly music for inspiration and drawing power. It’s vintage, you know. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os2zwB47upI">Perry Noble and AC/DC’s Highway to Hell</a>. Jonathan Brozozog’s <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfWg5qskipg">Passion Church and Michael Jackson’s Thriller</a>. That’s going back a few decades, to be sure, but new SBC President Steve Gaines and the Christ-honoring faithful sheep under his godly authority are really upping the ante by back-dating their own utter wastes of time even farther.<br />
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<script src="http://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=4962309039001&w=466&h=263" type="text/javascript"></script><noscript>Watch the latest video at &amp;lt;a href=”http://video.foxnews.com”&amp;gt;video.foxnews.com&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;</noscript><br />
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That’s right – you can keep your mediocre Michael Jackson and knock-off AC/DC. The Bellevue Baptist choir will see your eighties music and raise you the King of Rock n’ Roll, complete with two not-very-talented Elvis impersonators. You know, because Memphis. And just to rub it in, these fifty or more church members in good standing took a short-term mission trip to New York City to pull it off. Meanwhile, IMB is <a href="http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/01/26/david-platt-babblers-can-now-serve-overseas-through-imb/" target="_blank">pulling missionaries</a> off the foreign field because of lack of funding, and this author never got close to funding his own foreign-language street evangelism ministry.<br />
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Remember that Steve Gaines is the designated successor to Adrian Rogers, that stalwart of the SBC’s Conservative Resurgence who went on to show that at least a huge part of his motivations were to carve out his own kingdom in his own image. Rogers built a huge SBC megachurch. Rogers irrationally lashed out against monergism without knowledge. He built a church culture that thinks it’s cool to hang out in a huge shiny building with plantation-style pillars out front in the middle of a city where 50 babies are murdered per week and do nothing about it. And then that same culture thought it would be a good idea to call up Steve Gaines from the minor leagues to “pastor” their church… and when he demanded a parsonage with a swimming pool as a condition of employment, they acceded instead of rebuking him and finding a godly man to be pastor. SBC power brokering has a lineage, has chosen successors and favored sons. That’s just one more sign they’re not interested in your input, unless it’s the monetary kind.<br />
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The gauntlet has been thrown down. The best Ronnie Armani could do was <a href="http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/12/28/sbc-prez-at-ihop-my-first-impressions/">emulate Marty McFly</a> and perform the Floydian Dip on camera again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. You poor evangelical pastor saps who want to attract big giver goats so that they can be <a href="https://vimeo.com/search?q=steve+gaines+tithe">guilted into funding</a> Steve Gaines’ <br />
<del>vakay</del><a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2015/08/bellevue-asks-for-donations-for-steve.html">“time of refreshing”</a> and his <a href="http://pulpitandpen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/13442067_10154966511925752_1521931801_o.jpg">spacious parsonage with a nice cool swimming pool</a>…unless you can top covering Elvis on FoxNews, I’m afraid you’re always gonna be second best.Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-55932076316274967162016-06-17T14:11:00.002-05:002016-06-17T14:11:43.212-05:00With Whom Have I Really Unity?A **LOT** more important than mastering all the details and expressions of doctrinal minutiæ is obedience to the obvious commands of Scripture that are mostly neglected in modern American Reformedigelicalism - establishing righteousness, crying out against injustice, calling people to obedience, repentance, and faith in the Lord Jesus.<br />
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I hear "that's not my calling" ALL THE TIME, but what people mean is that they prefer to debate deep philosophical ideas from their couch on social media rather than actually put themselves at risk of reproach and injury from lost people by going to where the lost people are to call them out of darkness to light. So in essence they blame God for "calling" them to doing easy things rather than doing hard things for His kingdom. It's God's fault. Don't blame the individuals for simply disobeying!<br />
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For that reason I have a lot more in common with someone who professes Arminian soteriology AND OBEYS GOD than I have with a Calvinist who makes excuses and spends all his time reading books and attending conferences to hear yet more theology lectures as long as he can go to Chili's afterward to discuss theology even more.Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-78735105620403371232016-06-01T11:05:00.001-05:002016-06-01T11:05:28.838-05:00Jordan Hall - Thoughts on Southern Baptists Building a MosqueIn the <a href="http://polemicsreport.com/2016/05/30/podcast-sbc-entities-help-get-mosque-built/" target="_blank">30 May 2016 edition of the Polemics Report</a>, JD Hall discusses some very interesting topics, including reading out an open letter circulated by Chinese Christians about the so-called Heavenly Man, "Brother Yun" and discussing the birth control pill.<br />
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It is uncanny how apparently Southern Baptists are now the go-to folks if you want to build <a href="http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/03/25/southern-baptist-deacon-builds-abortion-clinic-with-pastors-approval/" target="_blank">an altar to sacrifice children to Molech</a> or <a href="http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/05/27/worshipping-religious-liberty-sbc-joins-mosque-building-effort/" target="_blank">a house of worship of a false god</a>.Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13358611.post-59002791371832477262016-05-26T15:53:00.000-05:002016-05-26T15:53:05.641-05:00Pulpit & Pen blog - Vineyard USA Biffs It On LGBTQXYZ and Communion<a href="http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/05/24/major-charismatic-denomination-biffs-it-on-lgbtqxyz-and-communion/" target="_blank">http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/05/24/major-charismatic-denomination-biffs-it-on-lgbtqxyz-and-communion/</a>Rhologyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.com0