Friday, August 31, 2012

Clearly pro-aborts think highly of women


  • Abolish Human Abortion Why would anyone believe that Planned Parenthood doesn't internally launder the funds they receive?
    I don't believe this for a second, especially given the way PP is clearly willing to lie when underage girls call them wanting an abortion and wanting to hide it from their parents and hide their 30 year old boyfriend.
    about an hour ago ·  · 1
  • Philip Whimsical Richards because those underage girls are clearly so fit to be mothers
    about an hour ago ·  · 1

  • Abolish Human Abortion     ‎\\because those underage girls are clearly so fit to be mothers\\

  • Right, and they'll never grow up. far better to murder the child.

    \\that Planned Parenthood employee messed up, if you're referring to the woman in the Live Action video\\

    it's systemic, not one isolated incident; I recommend you pay attention to your surroundings a little better.

    \\Planned Parenthood is taking the threat with an existential seriousness.\\

    Of course they'll SAY that, but this kind of stuff has been exposed MUCH more frequently, for years before the Live Action video, many times by Lila Rose herself.

    there is every reason to distrust Planned Parenthood.
    20 minutes ago · 


  • Philip Whimsical Richards yes because teen mothers obviously grow up to reach their full potential all the time
    my friend was in this situation, had she kept it, she wouldn't be in university right now, pulling a first in genetics
    19 minutes ago · 

  • Abolish Human Abortion ‎\\yes because teen mothers obviously grow up to reach their full potential all the time\\

    So let's put their babies to death b/c of immature mothers!
    Say, what's the cutoff point for maturity? How mature do they have to be? How do you mea
    sure?

    \\my friend was in this situation, had she kept it, she wouldn't be in university right now, pulling a first in genetics\\

    So she traded her baby's life for a bachelor's degree. Are we supposed to be favorably impressed?
    11 minutes ago · 


  • Philip Whimsical Richards the measurement is obviously if they feel ready

    and yes, most people are impressed pulling a first in a difficult science degree, as opposed to what? sitting on benefits watching jeremy kyle with a kid who's probably not going to amount to much
    6 minutes ago · 

  • Abolish Human Abortion ‎\\sitting on benefits watching jeremy kyle with a kid who's probably not going to amount to much\\

    Wow.
at 10 comments:

Monday, August 27, 2012

When novices try to act like they know what they're doing



Coline Hayposted toAbolish Human Abortion
4 hours ago near Alexandria, VA · 
  • I am pro choice. I've been posting on a few of the pictures on this group for the past hour or so. I've tried to remain as civil as possible and provide reliable sources for my information. I do not wish to start trouble with anyone of you, but I urge you to look your methods of argumentation and generalizations. I think both pro-choice and anti-choice individuals can agree on certain topics (adoption, better sex education, wider availability of contraception, etc). Anyway, I'm posting on this wall because I'm curious about a specific scenario. I've seen many anti choice individuals with differing opinions when it comes to pregnancies that are a result of rape and incest. But I've yet to get a solid opinion on how you all feel about abortions in the case of fetuses with Anencephaly. If you could share your views, I would appreciate it. Thanks!
     · 

    • Noel Bryant likes this.

      • Liz Davidson you need to look up "Nicolas Coke" a little boy born with that condition and, as of July this year, is still alive. And who can say whether or not the child would have an impaired quality of life? At least allow children with this condition a chance to survive.
        4 hours ago · 

      • Nikko Matthews they make up not even 3-5 percent of abortions most people do it because they didn't use contraceptive not because of rape or incest
        3 hours ago · 

      • Coline Hay Just some information.

        "A baby born with anencephaly is usually blind, deaf, unconscious, and unable to feel pain. Although some individuals with anencephaly may be born with a rudimentary brain stem, the lack of a functioning cerebrum permanently rules out the possibility of ever gaining consciousness. Reflex actions such as breathing and responses to sound or touch may occur."

        (Source: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/anencephaly/anencephaly.htm)

        Anencephaly Information Page: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS)
        www.ninds.nih.gov
        Anencephaly information sheet compiled by the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS).
        3 hours ago ·  · 

      • Coline Hay Why do you think that Nicolas Coke or other fetuses and babies with Anencephaly should be given a chance at life if science confirms they can never achieve personhood? They are only able to function in the most primitive sense, and only with life support.
        3 hours ago · 

      • Coline Hay I mean, obviously at this point Nicholas has a family that loves him and it would be difficult to let him die.
        3 hours ago · 

      • Matt Correia No matter how impaired, he or she would still be a person and in my opinion should be treated as such. They don't usually live past two years, so is it that much of a burden for that time, or would parents really rather abort it right away, giving it no chance of survival?
        3 hours ago ·  · 1

      • Dee Hamilton What is the Prognosis for a Child With Anencephaly?
        The prognosis for a child with anencephaly is extremely poor. Because the child lacks much of their brain, they will not be able to think, feel, or experience consciousness. Newborn anencephalic children are usually deaf and blind, and they cannot feel pain. While anencephalic newborn infants may be able to breathe or respond to touch or sound, they are not actually consciously reacting to these stimuli; the reaction is involuntary and comes from the brain stem, the oldest part of the brain at the base of the neck.

        Children born with anencephaly are only expected to live a few hours, days, or weeks. Seventy-five percent of anencephalic births are still births, while the remaining 25 percent of infants die shortly thereafter.

        My opinion, respect and support any decision.
        3 hours ago ·  · 2

      • Coline Hay But what is the point of it surviving? It is literally doing just that-surviving. It will never be able to "live", in terms of how we view life. It cannot think or feel. It cannot even feel love.
        3 hours ago · 

      • Matt Correia While it may not "feel" the tangible things we can feel, I personally believe it still has a soul that can feel love. And when it's the baby's time to go (naturally), then that was its time. It should not be up to us to end its life just because we don't think it's experiencing life normally.
        3 hours ago · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion http://abolishhumanabortion.com/faq/#what-about-a-baby-who-is-horribly-deformed-isnt-it-better-to-spare-that-child-a-life-of-suffering

        Abolitionist FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) | Abolish Human Abortion
        abolishhumanabortion.com
        We provide answers to the most frequent questions that we receive, and responses to the most frequent arguments that we encounter.
        3 hours ago ·  · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion ‎\\It cannot think or feel. It cannot even feel love.\\

        I have to ask you to stop and think - how in the world can you know that?
        3 hours ago ·  · 1

      • Abolish Human Abortion ‎\\science confirms they can never achieve personhood\\

        What precisely does this sentence mean?
        How can science measure personhood? What is personhood made of? What is its atomic weight? Of what elements is it composed?
        What experiments have been done to determine how much personhood a given product of human sexual reproduction contains?
        3 hours ago ·  · 1

      • Nikko Matthews again these cases are EXTREMELY rare y cant kill thirty people because one might be a theif
        3 hours ago · 

      • Nikko Matthews you*
        3 hours ago · 

      • Coline Hay ‎"I have to ask you to stop and think - how in the world can you know that?"

        Because it doesn't have the required brain function or anatomy to do that.
        3 hours ago ·  · 3

      • Coline Hay You're right, science cannot prove personhood. Definitely misspoke there. But personhood is generally thought of as consciousness- self awareness, the ability to think and experience, the ability to feel some sort of emotion. But these fetuses and babies don't have the level of cognition necessary to truly have consciousness.
        3 hours ago · Edited · 

      • Coline Hay And Nikko, I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to say or how it is related to this particular topic.
        3 hours ago ·  · 1

      • Abolish Human Abortion ‎\\ personhood is generally thought of as consciousness\\

        By whom? Atheistic naturalists? Certainly not by Christians. Atheistic naturalists need to give us a reason to think they're right and we're wrong about personhood. Do you know how you could go about proving that?

        \\ But these fetuses and babies don't have the level of cognition necessary to truly have consciousness.\\

        How do you know this?
        3 hours ago · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion ‎\\Because it doesn't have the required brain function or anatomy to do that.\\

        You are assuming that brain function is a necessary precondition for thinking and feeling. Again, this is an atheistic naturalist *assumption*. What is your evidence that it is true?
        3 hours ago · 

      • Coline Hay ‎"By whom? Atheistic naturalists? Certainly not by Christians. Atheistic naturalists need to give us a reason to think they're right and we're wrong about personhood. Do you know how you could go about proving that?"

        By many philosophers. This is not about atheism or Christianity.

        "How do you know this?"

        Getting evidence, hold on a moment please.
        3 hours ago · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion What is your argument that we should listen to those "many philosophers"? According to many others, that is not the case. How do we decide?
        And I'm afraid it IS about atheism or Christianity. If Christianity is true, all humans are made in the image of God and are of the same value, regardless of their IQ, abilities, and skill set.
        If atheism is true, humans are molecules in motion. There exists literally no objective reason to be kind to any human. There is also no reason to be mean and nasty to them. Nothing matters if atheism is true, including the idea that atheism is true.
        3 hours ago · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion Make sure your evidence makes a definite certain connection between brain function and consciousness and feeling. Don't merely repeat the assumption that you've already stated.
        If you can't provide evidence, recognise such and retract your statement.
        3 hours ago · 

      • Coline Hay Where is your scientific evidence, by the way?
        3 hours ago · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion For what? I have made no positive statements.
        3 hours ago · 

      • Coline Hay Okay, fetuses and babies with Anencephaly tend to have just a brain stem. The brain stem consists of the following:

        "Midbrain/ Mesencephalon- the rostral part of the brain stem, which includes the tectum and tegmentum. It is involved in functions such as vision, hearing, eyemovement, and body movement. The anterior part has the cerebral peduncle, which is a huge bundle of axons traveling from the cerebral cortex through the brain stem and these fibers (along with other structures) are important for voluntary motor function.

        Pons- part of the metencephalon in the hindbrain. It is involved in motor control and sensory analysis... for example, information from the ear first enters the brain in the pons. It has parts that are important for the level of consciousness [note that consciousness is this sense is different than what we are talking about] and for sleep. Some structures within the pons are linked to the cerebellum, thus are involved in movement and posture.

        Medulla Oblongata- this structure is the caudal-most part of the brain stem, between the pons and spinal cord. It is responsible for maintaining vital body functions, such as breathing and heartrate."

        (Source: http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/kinser/Structure1.html#brainstem)

        Brain Structures and Their Functions
        serendip.brynmawr.edu
        The nervous system is your body's decision and communication center. The centra...See More
        3 hours ago ·  · 

      • Dee Hamilton ‎"They don't usually live past two years,so is it that much of a burden for that time" Matt Correia. @Matt-For some, Yes. Tell me Matt, are you going to be sharing that burden with these parents? Didn't think so.
        3 hours ago · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion ‎Dee Hamilton again with the judgment, as if she knows anything about anyone here.
        3 hours ago · 

      • Coline Hay Here's some good thoughts on consciousness backed up by science:
        http://www.klab.caltech.edu/~koch/Elsevier-NCC.html
        The Neuronal Basis of Consciousness
        www.klab.caltech.edu
        Please address all correspondence to Dr. Christof Koch at the Division of ...See More
        3 hours ago ·  · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion ‎\\ If the brain is anaesthetized, consciousness ceases\\

        Where's the argument that an anesthetised brain is similar enough to anencephaly?

        \\Small lesions in the midbrain and thalamus of patients can lead to a complete loss of consciousness\\

        Ditto.
        If you succeed in establishing brain function = consciousness, your next task is to connect level of function and ability with amount of personhood and applicability of human rights.
        2 hours ago · 

      • Liz Davidson Nicolas Coke is living proof that not all humans die from this condition at birth and if their families have a chance of loving their babies even for a few days will it not be worth it?
        2 hours ago · 

      • Coline Hay Did he survive naturally? Or with tremendous life support?
        2 hours ago ·  · 1

      • Coline Hay And if they want that baby, they can have it. They can love it all they want until it dies, if they so choose. But I wanted to know whether or not people who identify as anti-choice think that aborting a fetus with Anencephaly is acceptable. The answer I'm getting so far is no, and from a Christian standpoint.
        2 hours ago · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion ‎(Just a reminder to everyone, in case he takes food and water via IV or something - water and nutrients are not an extraordinary, or "tremendous" level of care.)
        2 hours ago · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion Nobody identifies as anti-choice here, so I figure you won't be getting any response here.
        2 hours ago · 

      • Coline Hay Nicolas Coke takes a great amount of medication every day.
        2 hours ago · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion But no, if you meant those who identify as abolitionists and anti-abortion, it is never justifiable to abort a child just because he has a disease.
        Were you perfect when you were born? In perfect health? Not ANYthing wrong with you at all? How do we decide the cut-off point for when a baby is imperfect enough that it's OK to murder him in his mother's womb?
        2 hours ago · 

      • Coline Hay This isn't a disease. This is a condition which prevents the fetus or baby from ever being able to function as a person.
        2 hours ago ·  · 2

      • Abolish Human Abortion Please define what it means to "function as a person", and how you know your definition is correct.
        2 hours ago · 

      • Coline Hay I already posted a link to the page on brain function and how it relates consciousness and personhood.
        2 hours ago · 

      • Abolish Human Abortion No, it discussed CONSCIOUSNESS, not personhood. All your work is still ahead of you.
        2 hours ago · 
at 1 comment: