Wednesday, October 31, 2012

If you can't join 'em, make weird arguments, Part 4

Continuing from last time...

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The "weights on both sides" thing doesn't work. A crime may be rejoiced over by lots of people. Or you may murder a homeless person. Yet God has commanded that we not murder. It's pretty simple.
You might rape and murder an orphan girl who was your mail-order bride from Russia and then dispose of her body. Nobody ever knew.
Yet God knows of this crime, and it was not morally justifiable.

Further, assigning weights to the different factors you named is entirely arbitrary. Who is to say how much weight goes on which side? And what if you forget a certain factor?

Contrast that with the method wherein you merely listen to what God said.


- Are you trying to say because Kermit’s clinic was run horribly all clinics are run like this? -

Of course not.
The point is that MANY abortuaries are poorly-run and do not care much for women. Only money. Gosnell is merely one egregious example, yet why wasn't he shut down way before?



-Is a man killing his wife out of rage a service?-

It could be considered that way, sure. Like if she were up for a promotion that a competitor later got b/c the man's wife was killed.



-There is a murder service, contract killing, that you mentioned in your last response, but that service is not created because murder is illegal-

What does that sentence mean? "that service is not created"? Then why are hits sometimes undertaken?


-Well, if condoms are so cheap then we can afford to supply them to people who can’t afford them like high school students who get an allowance and must choose between gas money or contraceptives.-

Why would we want to do that?
Now YOU are committing the fallacy of composition, only this time for real.
To render ONE service (ie, give someone a condom) is cheap.
Then by your logic, giving 2 million kids 10 condoms each is also cheap.

YOu need to make an argument to the effect that I as a taxpayer am justifiably on the hook to provide some horny kid a condom so he can fornicate.
Why doesn't he just buy one himself?
Perhaps you're a Communist; you think that we should all pay 95% of our income to the state so the state can provide us what we need. This is not justifiable in God's eyes either. This is not a biblical worldview.


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Tuesday, October 30, 2012

I didn't kill him. That hole in his head did.



Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. · 113 like this
Wednesday at 2:37pm · 
  • If I got pregnant today, I would have an induced miscarriage....RU486.

    Have fun with that.
    Like · 
    • 4 people like this.
    • Rho Logy That's a lot like saying shooting someone in the head is merely "induced death".
    • Rho Logy Or rape is "induced pregnancy".
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. I'm sorry for using proper terminology.
      How about....I will have a medication abortion.
      That work better for you?
    • Rho Logy It's certainly better. 
      How about "I will poison my own child"? That's the most accurate way of expressing your intention.
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. No. That would be incorrect. I have 3 children. I will not be poisoning them.
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. I don't think you understand what a medication abortion is. It does not poison the embryo.
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. It takes two medications.

      "The abortion pill works by blocking the hormone progesterone. Without progesterone, the lining of the uterus breaks down, and pregnancy cannot continue.

      "misoprostol. It causes the uterus to empty."
    • Rho Logy Right, it's just a substance that results in the embryo's death. Not poison. 
      :-\
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. It causes a miscarriage.

      Fortunately, my chances of becoming pregnant are very low - like .1% - because of my birth control method of choice. ;-)
    • Rho Logy \\It causes a miscarriage.\\

      Right, just like shooting someone in the head causes fatal brain trauma. 
      The person doesn't die of the bullet. No no no, officer, he died of that hole in his head. I didn't do anything!
    • Jack Picknell Perhaps, "I nearly bleed to death with my second child who was born at 18 weeks and dies within minutes because he was non-viable." had something to do with your birth control method.
      BTW: Abstinence (when used correctly and consistently) is 100% effective.
    • Rho Logy Well, 99.9999999%. Virgin Mary. ;-)
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. //Jack Picknell Perhaps, "I nearly bleed to death with my second child who was born at 18 weeks and dies within minutes because he was non-viable." had something to do with your birth control method.//

      That is incorrect. I was not on any birth control       before then.

      //BTW: Abstinence (when used correctly and consistently) is 100% effective.//

      Which goes against god if you're married. ;-)
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. But, thanks so much Jack for taking a horrific time in my life and trying to make it my fault! That's so awesome of you to do so. Hey - let's attack other people that have buried their children because it's so fun to do.
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. //Right, just like shooting someone in the head causes fatal brain trauma. 
      The person doesn't die of the bullet. No no no, officer, he died of that hole in his head. I didn't do anything!//

      lmao! That's some funny (edited out a bad word) right there.
    • Rho Logy \\Which goes against god if you're married.\\

      that's an assertion minus the argument. You've been listening to too many Roman Catholics.
      (Note: This was a stupid thing for me to say; I read too quickly and didn't correctly interpret what Upaawc had said.)

      \\ let's attack other people that have buried their children because it's so fun to do.\\

      Was your 18-week old indeed a child, not a mere "embryo" or "fetus"?
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. //You've been listening to too many Roman Catholics.//

      No. I've read the Bible. I was raised Christian. I was Christian until not so long ago.
    • Rho Logy Profanity is not allowed here, FYI. Your comment is in the spam filter.
    • Rho Logy Instead of laughing, what's the actual answer to my "hold in the head" analogy?
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. He was born. There was nothing they could do to save him. He was not developed enough. He died. I named him. He has a birth certificate and a death certificate. we took pictures. We buried him.

      I'm not one of those people that say a fetus is not a ch      ild. The types of terms are different. Fetus is a child in the fetal stage of development.
      At 18 weeks, it is well past the embryonic stage. An embryo is only an embryo for 8 weeks.
    • Rho Logy \\An embryo is only an embryo for 8 weeks.\\

      So when is it OK to directly cause the death of that life form that will eventually, if left alone, grow into a baby and be born?
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. //So when is it OK to directly cause the death of that life form that will eventually, if left alone, grow into a baby and be born?//

      Depends who you ask. I've already answered that question. I've already stated viability/sentience.

      Some pro-choicers will tell you up until the day it is born. I do not hold that same position.
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. // Profanity is not allowed here, FYI. Your comment is in the spam filter.//

      That's cool. I apologize. FYI: Jack's comment has been reported.
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. //Instead of laughing, what's the actual answer to my "hold in the head" analogy?//

      Missed this. Sorry.

      In this case, the guy can't say he did nothing wrong. He did put the bullet in the other guys head.

      The death certificate will not say 'killed by joe'. It will say cause of death: fatal brain trauma.
    • Jack Picknell Unwanted: 1) You chose to tell your story. I asked if "perhaps" there was a link. I am sorry for your loss. 2) Abstinence is perfectly acceptable if the married couple is in agreement. 3) Reported my comment? Pray tell on what basis, for what infraction ?
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. You assumed that I got pregnant on accident while on birth control and accuse my birth control of causing the premature birth of my son WITHOUT even asking any other questions about how it happened first.

      If the married couple doesn't want to have sex, that is fine. That is their choice. I choose not to abstain from sex.

      How did I mark it - oh yeah...personal attack.
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. I am not afraid to tell my story. I do not mind talking about it. I freely answer questions about it. It is what happened to me during that time that changed me from being pro-life to pro-choice. It is also what led me to investigate other belief systems and changed me from a Christian to a spiritual person.
    • Jack Picknell Your assumption of my assumptions is invalid. I did not assume nor imply that your pregnancy was accidental. I suggested that perhaps your birth control method led to the premature birth. You didn't say what method you use, however, you have stated you have had induced labor; that you would use RU 486; and that you clearly support abortion. Correlation between premature births and prior contraceptive use and abortion is well documented. It is a logical assumption (albeit incorrect in your case) that they were linked. Sorry.
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. // I did not assume nor imply that your pregnancy was accidental. I suggested that perhaps your birth control method led to the premature birth.//

      That would be assuming I was on birth control at the time of pregnancy. (Why argue with a man who obviou      sly has no clue about pregnancy?)

      // Correlation between premature births and prior contraceptive use and abortion is well documented.//

      Links?
    • Lynn Matsayko First of I will say Im sorry for the loss of your child, because no matter how you or your other Pro Choice friends believe. I know that your baby was real and not a blob of tissue , even from conception. So you believe after 8 weeks, is when a fetus becomes a human being? I was curious to the timeline you go by on when life occurs, etc. I'm glad you do acknowledge the life of your own child though. Ru 486 is a chemical induced abortion, which alters the blood supply to the uterus and placenta and cuts off the nutrients the embryo(your child) needs to develop. Then a few days later you'll have to take another drug , misoprosol which will then cause your uterus to contract and expel the embryo ( your child). Then usually a 3rd visit is needed to confirm the abortion is complete, but 5 to 8 % will still require a surgical abortion to complete the process. meaning a fourth and maybe fifth follow up visit. This drug Ru 486 has also been linked to hemmoraging,and some times fatal infections. There have been deaths related directly to this drug, in the death reports, it states that it,sets up a genital infection in women , they became ill very quickly and died from massive infection before anything could be done to save them. Even if the women does not encounter severe medical issues from this abortion pill, there is always the death of a baby associated with it.
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. // I was curious to the timeline you go by on when life occurs, etc.//

      When sentience occurs. When the fetus is able to think, feel, etc.
      It is also the time of quickening, as in the Jewish belief. The Jewish are not fully pro-life, btw.
      It is also t      he time of ensoulment as in other belief systems, as well as my own.
      It is when all the electrical brain functions are fully connected and working.
      It is the time of viability as well, the baby can survive outside of the womb, independent of it's mother.

      Prior to this point, it is a body and our bodies are simply vessels. When the body dies, you do not cease to exist. You existed before you entered the body and you exist after you leave the body.

      If you haven't seen this video yet, you might want to watch it. There are two others that follow it.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=59Ud3g2ymOM
    • Rhology \\ I've already stated viability/sentience.\\

      What is it about viability/sentience that magically grants human rights to the child?

      \\ Jack's comment has been reported.\\

      I'm sure you're proud of yourself.

      \\In this case, the guy can't say he did nothing wrong. He did put the bullet in the other guys head.\\

      In this case, the woman can't say she did nothing wrong. She did put the RU486 pill in her mouth and swallow it.

      \\How did I mark it - oh yeah...personal attack.\\

      Your skin is remarkably thin. You better grow up, honestly.

      \\Prior to this point, it is a body and our bodies are simply vessels\\

      Prove it. And prove, even if it were true, that it means that it's justifiable to kill it.

      \\If you haven't seen this video yet, you might want to watch it.\\

      Angie the Anti-Theist is incapable of maintaining calm, reasonable dialogue with people who disagree with her. (I know this from experience.) 
      I strongly encourage you to find something that actually carries some rational weight.
    • Unwanted pregnancy and a woman's choice. //What is it about viability/sentience that magically grants human rights to the child?//

      Already answered that question.

      //Prove it. And prove, even if it were true, that it means that it's justifiable to kill it.//

      Already proved it.
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