Wednesday, January 06, 2016

Debate with Randy Hartinger

At the 2nd so-called Black Mass in OKC, street preachers who tend toward the Pelagian and the abusive (those who I've been told sometimes call themselves the "Pervert Patrol", though that information might be flawed) were present from Tulsa. Brother Toby and I engaged them and asked them to speak with persuasiveness and grace with people, beseeching and pleading with them rather than berating them and calling names. They did not respond well.

I later encountered them outside the Joel Osteen "Night of Hope" event in Tulsa in April 2015. Abolitionists were agitating and proclaiming the Law and Gospel of God there, and these other preachers were also present, again repeating their abusive and mean-spirited behavior that we had previously observed in OKC. I took the opportunity to rebuke them publicly to their face in an interaction behind which I stand 100% as justified and indeed necessary and helpful, given who these men are and how they act.

A few months later I believe I commented on one of their videos either on that channel or on compatriot Chris Hale's channel (now defunct), and they responded, leading to a conversation of some length, (probably on this video, which has been taken down for some reason) during which the interlocutor (Peter Schultz) challenged me to a face-to-face debate, again including childish abusive language like "kiddo" and "we'll give you 30 minutes on Sunday to phone in and teach the church whatever you want to. Game? Doubt it, big boy" and "Had a real good laugh over the hypocrisy you displayed as you yelled 'sinner, sinner, sinner' in that whiney voice of yours".

I of course was more than happy to engage in such a debate. It turns out they didn't mean I'd debate one of them, though. I was put in touch via email with one Randy Hartinger, and figured he was a resident of Tulsa, so we made our plans, exchanged some emails about each other's positions for preparation sake, and then set the time and date.

I arrived at Schultz's house on 04Oct15, to find that I was to debate Hartinger, yes, but in fact via Skype, since he lives in Virginia and "acts as one church" with Schultz's house church via video conferencing. The video had been going for at least three hours when I arrived, so I guess those two churches "act as one" every Sunday or something via teleconference. Oookkaaaayyyy.

At any rate, we proceeded with the debate, and here it is:

To clarify a few things about Schultz's slanted "introduction":
--During the phone call mentioned at the 2:30 minute mark, I'm not at all confident that "he wanted to drop the call like a hot lava rock" is accurate. I was looking for teammates in street evangelism, and when I realised who he was and what he believes and how he acts, I understood it would be bad to continue wasting his time and mine. He makes it sound like I abruptly hung up. Typical.
--At the 3:10 mark, during our Facebook PM conversation, it's true that he said he couldn't meet on a Sunday and I was fine with that. I never offered again because at that point it was becoming clear that he was more than just some lost soul that could possibly be reached with a private conversation. Rather, he is a false teacher and a wolf to be opposed and exposed publicly.
--3:50 mark - I was at JoelO to preach the Gospel. The debate mentioned was part of the reason I was in Tulsa that weekend, but far from the only reason.

Also, for some reason around the 20:30 mark, I said that I did not attend the debate mentioned. I did actually attend most of it, but there was another presentation the night before that I did not attend, and due to my nervousness I experienced a brain fart and confused the two.

During the debate I certainly could have improved here and there but overall I believe it was a good use of time, for the record. Since I definitely do think that men like these give Gospel preachers a bad name, it is good that I can point to my interactions with men like them to show any honest inquirer that we are not on the same team.


Anonymous said...

Chris left them in fall.

Rhology said...


You're saying Chris is no longer part of their fellowship as of Autumn 2015?
In mid-December 2015, he put up the video of the debate that happened on Oct 4, 2015.
What's your source of info?

Anonymous said...

He quit them. Making videos doesn't prove anything.

Rhology said...

True but I'd just wonder why he went ahead and put up the video in that case.
Interesting. Was it because he moved away or something, or was it because he disagreed with them in some way? Do you know why his video channel says "former street preacher" now?

Anonymous said...

Former would mean somebody quit something. I don't know that they still preach or not. Never see them out anymore. At Madonna it was that big boy with a wooden cross. Didn't see the Peter group.

Rhology said...

Yeah that big guy is legit. I know him.

I admit to curiosity as to your source of information.

Anonymous said...

Hartinger and Schultz families both holy living. They won't let Chris in their houses he is up to his nrvk in sin now he's a goner. If anyone says they've seen him with them recent, they probably lying unless they got video

Anonymous said...

Alan, I read your message this morning on You Tube. I left the Schultz fellowship in November. Don't remember a specific date. I'm still a filmmaker though so I don't mind putting out their videos. Even after I parted company with them. It might sound strange but I'm kind of strange I can admit that. LOL!

Rhology said...

Chris Hale,

That's interesting. May I ask why you parted ways with them?
Do you consider yourself a follower of Jesus still? I am simply genuinely curious.

Anonymous said...

Pete Schultz left Randy's group to join Jim Gilles. There was a bunch of scandal I hear. Peter's daughter left him and said she would never be with him again. 2 of Pete's daughters are lesbians who were sleeping in the same bed for years. When this came out, Pete quit being a pastor. The things going on in that house where you debated are scary. They confessed to lying about their marriage for years. Turned out that both Peter and his wife were previously married and his new wife, Heather Schultz now, was his mistress for 2 years. They both left their first marriages living together for years. Jim calls this serial adultery but allows it for them since they are Holiness. They had lied saying they came together after divorces were final. They left the group out of embarrassment afraid it would get out and even took the Virginia church to court but it all became public record then which backfired and became public exhibits and transcripts. Some preachers were even sitting and watching the whole thing and even recorded the whole thing. The judge threw it out for no evidence but Jim Gilles was Pete's witness and some lady married 5 times. Pete had the lady lie and say Randy ordered her husband to murder her. You did right to stand against those adulterers. They are a very evil bunch of people. Be glad you made it out okay and God protected you from them.

Rhology said...

I find it quite plausible to think that Schultz and Hartinger have parted ways, that Schultz' little group has dissolved, and that scary stuff happens in that house.
But as far as the taking the VA church to court, I googled Hartinger, found he lives in Roanoke, and then searched VA court records in both the city and county of Roanoke, finding no court record like what you describe, Anonymous. I'd appreciate some hard facts if you're willing; otherwise, I'll definitely not be able to take what you say here as certain.

Anonymous said...

The court case was in Tulsa County in Oklahoma. They had to fly there for the case. If you look on their it shows up and shows dismissed after two days for insufficient evidence. Peter joined with Jim Gilles now and preaches with him. The Pervert Patrol has perverts in his house and did even when you were there and years before. Be glad you are safe from those adulterers.

Anonymous said...

It was in Oklahoma and not Virginia.

The whole thing was court reported. Try that link. Larry the Street Preacher said he was there too and several such. The Judge tossed it out after all the lies had zero evidence. I think the Virginia group is a bit strict, but lying and saying he ordered a man to murder somebody and all the other lies is horrible. Stay clear of those Schultz and Gilles guys. They joined with Kelly Cox too. They will lie to cover up their over the top sins and hire attorneys to try and fry you. All it takes is a crooked judge and they can falsely accuse you too. This judge saw through it even with no attorney on the church side. Watch yourself out there, Bro.

Jen4Jesus said...

So this Peter Schultz church is Pervert Patrol? Ironic. I am told the house you debated in is Pastor Tommy McDaniel's daughter's house, Heather McDaniel. Not sure how many marriages this is but this Peter is or was one of them per google. Holiness used to have better stands against adultery marriages. Both were living together while married to others is what is said IDK. BTW I thought Bro Jim Gilles was against adultery but Tommy IS his favorite preacher so I guess that blinds him? jIM preached for us many times. Tommy is a good preacher and was always nice and cant be blamed for his children. His wife was not a nice woman and his sons (dustin and eric mcdaniel) were always on drugs in trouble. But Heather McDAniel is a peace of work. A raunchy little home-wrecker used more than a Walmart restroom. Her goal was apparently to sleep with half the youth group, half of high school, the gym, college. She got pregnant finally and Tommy was so ashamed. She married him after the baby was born (Trey was the guys name)and the church couldn't really cover this up. Tommy said she was back in town and then married again.She corrupted countless young men including my son who regrets ever falling for her loose running around. Raunchiest hustler in 5 counties if you want my opinion. If she is still married to another woman's husband and hasn't repented, she is grotesque. Never knew why so many guys wanted that well worn path. A bunch of nerve to preach about perverts! This brings back many bad memories. yeah pervert patrol.