Wednesday, July 09, 2014

Open Theism followup

Teh Interw3bz are abuzz today about the debate between James White and Bob Enyart, which resulted in a massive success for White if the two cross-ex periods that are now available are any indication.

An open theist talked to me about it:

  • Christopher Minor Rhol, what were James White's responses to Bob's four main arguments in his opening statement? They were:

    If God is free, the future is open.

    The Incarnation proves God is not outside of time and not immutable.
    The five biblical attributes of God are different than the five philosophical attributes of God.
    Time cannot be created because time is a prerequisite to bring something from non-existence to existence.
  • Christopher Minor Rhol, I predict that James White did not answer these and that you cannot either. But I'm all ears.
  • Rhol Ogy I haven't listened to the whole debate, just the two cross-ex periods.

    My answers are:

    God is free and His decree is perfect, both.
    God the Son ENTERED INTO time and yet He remains immutable. How? Kenosis. It's quite mysterious. Yet it's true.
    I don't know what the 5 attributes are you're referring to.
    As for this:
    \\Time cannot be created because time is a prerequisite to bring something from non-existence to existence.\\

    1) You don't know that from the Bible. So it's pagan philosophy, which makes me LOL.
    2) The Bible says that God is timeless.
    3) The Bible says God created everything. Time is part of everything.
  • Rhol Ogy Could Jesus choose to cease to exist?
  • Christopher Minor Rhol, it looks like your post got cut off. The answers are missing.
  • Rhol Ogy refresh; I edited
  • Christopher Minor //God is free and His decree is perfect, both.//

    Was God free to decree, meaning He had the ability not to? Was God free to decree differently? And once God decreed, is He free to change His decree?


    //God the Son ENTERED INTO time and yet He remains immutable.//

    God the Son had one nature in eternity past and now has two natures. How is that not a change? And do you see the sequence experienced by God the Son? He was God the Son with one nature first, and God the Son with two natures second. That is a before and after, which means God is not outside of time.

    //I don't know what the 5 attributes are you're referring to.//

    5 Biblical attributes: Living, Personal, Relational, Good and Loving
    5 Philosophical attributes: Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnipresence, Immutability, Impassibility

    Christ was all 5 of the biblical attributes in the emptied incarnate state, but none of the 5 philosophical attributes, yet remained God. This proves the 5 biblical attributes are essential to God and the 5 philosophical attributes are not, because Christ remained God without them.

    //1) You don't know that from the Bible. So it's pagan philosophy, which makes me LOL.//

    God being outside of time came from pagan philosophy, not the Bible.

    //2) The Bible says that God is timeless.//

    No it doesn't.

    //3) The Bible says God created everything. Time is part of everything.//

    Time is not part of everything, like truth and morality are not part of everything. Time, truth and morality all exist, yet none were created by God. They flow from His nature. We experience linear duration because God does.
    58 mins · Like · 1
  • Rhol Ogy Was God free to decree, meaning He had the ability not to? --- Yes. Since God doesn't have a decree, could His will to bring about the final Eschaton the way He wants be thwarted?

    Was God free to decree differently? --- Not sure. His decree is perfect
    , so you're asking whether He is free to decree imperfection. Does your god even know what perfection is? If so, how? Does that idea ever change?

    once God decreed, is He free to change His decree? --- His decree has never not existed, and it has always been perfect. Can your god be sure that anything he says will certainly come to pass?

    God the Son had one nature in eternity past and now has two natures. How is that not a change? --- Because Hebrews 13:8.

    That is a before and after, which means God is not outside of time. --- He entered into time for a reason and a purpose b/c He is omnipotent.
    Since your god is inside time, doesn't that mean that there are things that have always existed alongside him? That he didn't create? Which means your god is not a necessary being?

    Christ was all 5 of the biblical attributes in the emptied incarnate state, but none of the 5 philosophical attributes, yet remained God. --- Like pretty much all open theists I've talked to, you never take the kenosis into account.

    God being outside of time came from pagan philosophy, not the Bible. --- Except for all the times God says that He created everything. So it's what I said, not what you said.

    Time is not part of everything, like truth and morality are not part of everything. --- LOL. I'm not part of everything either. I am sui generis!
  • Christopher Minor //Was God free to decree, meaning He had the ability not to? --- Yes.//

    This means that the future was open and not settled. Which also means God did not have exhaustive foreknowledge until He decreed. Which means the God of Calvinism learns. He incre
    ased in knowledge once He decided what to decree.

    //Was God free to decree differently? --- Not sure.//

    If God could not have decreed differently, then He is not free. But I believe God has libertarian free will. And that means He has the ability to choose. Let's make this simple for you. Could God have created the universe differently, with just one more grain of sand than He did? And how would one more grain of sand make the universe "imperfect"?

    //once God decreed, is He free to change His decree?//

    Yes or No?

    //God the Son had one nature in eternity past and now has two natures. How is that not a change? --- Because Hebrews 13:8.//

    That's not an answer. Does Hebrews 13:8 mean that Jesus did not grow in wisdom and stature?

    //That is a before and after, which means God is not outside of time. --- He entered into time for a reason and a purpose b/c He is omnipotent.//

    I didn't ask about God entering into time. How do you account for the sequence experienced by God going from one nature in eternity past to two natures in eternity future? When you meet Him, He will have two natures. When Enoch met Him, He only had one.

    //Like pretty much all open theists I've talked to, you never take the kenosis into account.//

    This is not an answer. Christ remained God, yet was not omniscient. This means that omniscience is not an essential attribute of God.

    //God being outside of time came from pagan philosophy, not the Bible. --- Except for all the times God says that He created everything.//

    Did God create truth and morality? Yes or no?
  • Rhol Ogy No no no... Your turn to answer my questions. Then we can proceed with yours.
  • Christopher Minor We're not finished with my original questions. Once we hash those out, I'm all yours. You can ask me whatever you want and I'll answer everything with a direct Yes or No.
  • Rhol Ogy \\We're not finished with my original questions.\\

    And we haven't even started with my own original questions.
  • Rhol Ogy \\You can ask me whatever you want and I'll answer everything with a direct Yes or No.\\

    Go ahead and start now. thanks!
  • Christopher Minor Rhol, it's clear you can't answer my questions. I'm content with that.
  • Rhol Ogy Shrug. I gave a lot more answers than you did.
  • Christopher Minor I'm prepared to answer many more from you. I predicted (originally) that you could not answer Bob's four main arguments. I want to finish that challenge before moving on to something else. It makes it easier to follow.
  • Rhol Ogy I'm prepared to answer many more from you as well including the follow-ups you sent rather than answering my own questions.

    At this point, one of us has ponied up some dough. The other is ruffling his fur, trying to look big.,
  • Christopher Minor Well, you have an opportunity to prove my prediction wrong. I'll be waiting. Feel free to post on my wall anytime. Thanks.

Monday, June 23, 2014

For Out of Much Affliction and Anguish of Heart I Wrote to You

The letter of 2 Corinthians demonstrates probably more than any other epistle the personality of the Apostle Paul. We see a pastoral heart, the interests of a man who poured his sweat, tears, and soul into founding a local body of believers in a city full of idolatry and wickedness. He is now years removed from sending off his first epistle to this church, and he had to really take the wood to them about numerous issues – orderly worship, divisions, the rich shaming and humiliating the poor within the church in the context of the Eucharistic agape feast, applauding gross sexual immorality in the name of exalting freedom in Christ, etc. 1 Corinthians would not have been an easy letter to read!

Yet we see in 2 Corinthians 1:12-15 Paul’s hopeful confidence that the Corinthian church’s love will overwhelm and overcome any antipathy the church might have held against him for communicating such a stern missive. As Paul considers that he does not know the nature of the Corinthians’ sentiments toward him at this point due to his tough letter, to say nothing of all the poison poured into their ears by the Judaisers, he yet reiterates in trusting and loving terms the very words he’d written in chapter 13 of his first letter to them – Love hopes all things. He gives no indication that he expects them to reject him when he arrives.

And yet we see that in fact he had already tentatively planned to come to Corinth some time before, but then rejected the plan. Specifically:
1:15In this confidence I intended at first to come to you, so that you might twice receive a blessing; 16that is, to pass your way into Macedonia, and again from Macedonia to come to you, and by you to be helped on my journey to Judea…23But I call God as witness to my soul, that to spare you I did not come again to Corinth. 24Not that we lord it over your faith, but are workers with you for your joy; for in your faith you are standing firm. 2:1But I determined this for my own sake, that I would not come to you in sorrow again. 2For if I cause you sorrow, who then makes me glad but the one whom I made sorrowful? 3This is the very thing I wrote you, so that when I came, I would not have sorrow from those who ought to make me rejoice; having confidence in you all that my joy would be the joy of you all. 4For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote to you with many tears; not so that you would be made sorrowful, but that you might know the love which I have especially for you.
Here we can see some of Paul’s philosophy of pastoring, mentoring, leading, ministering. Paul, the very Apostle to the Gentiles, the guy whom God used to write almost half of of the New Testament, the guy who saw perhaps more converts than anyone in the earliest church, the guy who received crazy amazing revelations from the Lord (and a thorn in the flesh to keep him from exalting himself), he is explicitly unwilling to lord it over anyone’s faith.

These are the same Corinthians who demonstrated so many enormous spiritual problems as laid out in 1 Corinthians. The same who thought it was just great that a man was sleeping with a woman who was married to his father. And on and on. Paul sees himself as, what? A mature and powerful man, standing above the rest of the stupid sheep? A man above questioning (Acts 17:11)? No. Rather, he is a worker with them for their joy, in which he reflects precisely the sentiments of the Apostle Peter (1 Peter 5:3).

Why did Paul decide not to come to Corinth again? It is because he loves the Corinthian church. He longs to see them again, for they are his spiritual children (3 John 4) and he has deep affection for them. Yet he was afraid that he would be made sorrowful by his coming to them; what if he found them to be still unfaithful to the truth? Notably, notice the juxtaposition of two sentiments he had about his planned (and apparently aborted) visit, in verse 1:15 and in verse 1:23 and 2:1. 1:15 notes that he wanted to pass through twice, stopping each time, to bless (χαριν, “charis“) the Corinthians, yet 1:23 and 2:1 express a wariness that he might cause them sorrow by his visit(s).

So which is it? That he would bless them, or cause them sorrow?

Why would Paul be sorrowful, and cause sorrow if he came to them this second time? Find the answer in v3 – “This is the very thing I wrote you, so that when I came, I would not have sorrow…” He wrote his first epistle to the Corinthians so that he would not be grieved when he came to them again. And what constitutes the majority of that epistle? Rebuke, correction, and reproof. As noted above, the Corinthian church was a mess, and he wrote that epistle to clean it up. But remember, this is the first century AD. No email, no Skype, no Twitter. How was Paul supposed to know whether the epistle had been well-received by the Corinthians? What if they tore it up in a rage and gnashed their teeth at the man who had “judged” them?

No doubt Paul agonized in prayer over their reception of his tough-love epistle (see 2 Cor 2:4, 7:6-8, 11:28), and was thankfully relieved at the report from them brought by Titus later on (mentioned in 7:6-7). This report from Titus may be how he knew that they did end up disciplining the man in question and that the man did repent (2:6-8). But this report apparently didn’t give Paul the peace of mind he would probably have preferred about their state of mind and heart as well as their consistency in putting away sin, whether the sins he had rebuked them for or new ones.

We see at the beginning of chapter 2 that Paul decided to write 1 Corinthians instead of coming directly to them to bring the rebuke face to face. His motive was that having to correct and reprove so many people for so many things would have caused a strain in their relationship. His hope was that they would repent, having been grieved by the things he said in his letter that would lead to a godly sorrow (2 Cor 7:10) leading to a repentance without regret, so that they would know the love he had for them, “so that when I came, I would not have sorrow from those who ought to make me rejoice; having confidence in you all that my joy would be the joy of you all” (2:3). It is very interesting to me, and an unexpected discovery from the text, that while many people today react against things like debates and rebukes over written media like the Internet, Paul himself chose a letter to bear difficult words rather than a face to face meeting, deciding to put off the face to face meeting until afterwards, when possibly the letter would have had the desired effecting of repentance.

Let us take special note of vv9-11.
9For to this end also I wrote, so that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things. 10But one whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for your sakes in the presence of Christ, 11so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.
Again, probably a reference to his first epistle to the Corinthians, and in this specific context, he is probably referring to the sinning brother from 1 Corinthians 5. Why does he say that he wrote that epistle and that part of it to test their obedience in all things? Because hearing a stern rebuke about one’s sin is hard, and exercising righteous church discipline is harder still! Anyone who has participated in such an action, done in a biblical, loving, and sober way, knows the truth of that. Paul didn’t want the church to be taken advantage of by the deceiver, and that is why he wrote the difficult words he wrote in 1 Corinthians 5. That is why he took the risk of causing the sorrow, of rupturing the relationship. He knew that the painful reproof had to precede the joy of relationship that was free of and untainted by sin. He wouldn’t have to be constantly holding back his tongue when fellowshipping with them, hating that they were carrying on in wickedness, all the while smiling and appearing to think that all was well. He wouldn’t have to swallow hard against that pit in his stomach, and with trembling (1 Cor 2:3, 2 Cor 2:16) take some brothers aside or, more difficult still, address the entire congregation with words bitter to his taste.

This hard letter, these hard words – did Paul consider them an evil? Was he setting an example whereby we today might be inspired to pass over sin and ignore wickedness so that we will not grieve people or cause sorrow or difficulty?

We can find out answer to that question addressed again in 2 Cor 7:5-16.
5For even when we came into Macedonia our flesh had no rest, but we were afflicted on every side: conflicts without, fears within. 6But God, who comforts the depressed (ταπεινός – “lowly, humble, low to the ground, downcast”), comforted us by the coming of Titus; 7and not only by his coming, but also by the comfort with which he was comforted in you, as he reported to us your longing, your mourning, your zeal for me; so that I rejoiced even more.
Matthew Henry comments:

“There seems to be a connection between 2Cor 2:13 (where the apostle said he had no rest in his spirit when he found not Titus at Troas) and the fifth verse of this chapter: and so great was his affection to the Corinthians, and his concern about their behaviour in relation to the incestuous person, that, in his further travels, he still had no rest till he heard from them…He was troubled when he did not meet with Titus at Troas, and afterwards when for some time he did not meet with him in Macedonia: this was a grief to him, because he could not hear what reception he met with at Corinth, nor how their affairs went forward. And, besides this, they met with other troubles, with incessant storms of persecutions; there were fightings without, or continual contentions with, and opposition from Jews and Gentiles; and there were fears within, and great concern for such as had embraced the Christian faith, lest they should be corrupted or seduced, and give scandal to others, or be scandalized.”

But finally Paul did find Titus to receive the good report from Corinth. Paul seems overjoyed by the reception with which Titus, who was known to be an apostolos of Paul, met there. Note that, along with the longing and zeal for Paul, Titus reported on their mourning. For what cause would they mourn? Over their sin, of course. This calls to mind Proverbs 28:23 – “He who rebukes a man will afterward find more favor than he who flatters with the tongue.” And why is that? Because of Proverbs 27:6 – “Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy.”
8For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it—for I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while— 9I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
Here we get a glimpse of the turmoil in Paul’s soul in the aftermath of having sent his letter. One might be forgiven for suspecting a wry smile on Paul’s face as he writes that he doesn’t regret sending the letter now, but he sort of regretted it after the messenger carrying it had passed just out of sight. Causing sorrow was not enjoyable for him, despite what some who hate holiness might be tempted to think about the man who employed some measure of harsh language in his epistles, but what Paul saw clearly is that sorrow must be caused and sin must be called out in order to find out what kind of sorrow would result. Would it be the good kind of sorrow or the bad kind?

If the bad kind, the Corinthians would have suffered loss, and Paul’s letter of rebuke and correction would have been the trigger for it, as the holy words, having fallen on deaf ears and obstinate hearts, would have served to condemn them because of what they approved. This would obviously have led to greater sorrow for Paul, that would not have been resolved, given 2:2 – “For if I cause you sorrow, who then makes me glad but the one whom I made sorrowful?”
But at this point he rejoiced (7:9), as repentance was produced. The sorrow was behind them, and him. “For behold what earnestness this very thing, this godly sorrow, has produced in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what avenging of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter” (7:11). Paul was obligated to write to warn them, knowing that he had to cause sorrow and hoping and praying the sorrow would be the kind that “produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation” rather than the “sorrow of the world (which) produces death” (7:10). Given the sinful state the Corinthian church was in, however, there was only one way to find out. The friend, Paul, had to wound them so as to provoke a reaction of self-examination, which the friend hoped would lead to vindication.

Re-read Paul’s extravagant language in 7:7-16. He spoke of comfort, longing, zeal for Paul, rejoicing, earnestness, godly sorrow, vindication of themselves, indignation, fear, avenging of wrong, again comfort, rejoicing, being refreshed, vindicated boasting, affection, again rejoicing, having confidence in all things in them. This is the same church about which 1 Corinthians was written! How did they get from there to here? Simple – confrontation about sin in love but with directness, prayer, the grace of God, and repentance.

Where did it all begin? What if Paul had succumbed to his fear and had gone along with what has come to be the prevailing spirit of this modern age, that love is always “nice” and doesn’t say hard things, that criticism is always an “attack”? What if he had ignored their sin? Among many other things, the triumph we see in 2 Corinthians 7 would be absent from our Bibles today. Passing through the struggle, meeting and wrestling with sorrow, such that greater and real joy is the product on the other side – this is the example the Savior passed on to us, and it gleams through the pages of such books as 1 & 2 Corinthians, 1 Peter, Hebrews, and so on.

What excuse do any of us have for observing sin and skating over it? Let us be faithful to observe and repeat the examples that we have in Scripture passages such as this.

Sunday, June 15, 2014

Intellectual Dishonesty Is Tiresome

It may look like I'm being really mean and nasty to this Will Duffy, but you have to understand that our relationship started off decently well. He (wrongly) calls himself an abolitionist and all that, likes talking theology, etc. OK, cool. But he is a open theist. So we debated that here and there, but what I've noticed from him and others in his little FB clique is that they do not care enough to learn. This is like the tenth time we've been around this same discussion. It is a waste of time to actually answer his questions again so I started asking him to demonstrate that he actually cares enough to engage with some measure of intellectual honesty. Sadly, it would appear that he does not care enough to do that.

Note that while I am trying to get away from the moniker "Calvinist", it will take some time to root out of my every day vocabulary. When you see me say "Calvinist", just substitute "regenerational monergist". 


Will Duffy The Calvinist doctrine of grace is not love at all. It's more like the equivalent of rape.
June 12 at 1:06pm · Like

Rhol Ogy Count on Will Duffy to say stupid things and lies. Like clockwork.
June 12 at 1:07pm · Like · 2

Will Duffy That's not very substantive Rhol. Rape is when a man forces himself on a woman and does not allow her to resist. The Calvinist doctrine of grace is quite similar. God forces Himself on you (arbitrarily I might add) and does not allow you to resist His grace.

Not sure why you think I was lying and not sure why you think what I said was stood, but you're free (at least in my view of God) to refute the argument at hand.
June 12 at 2:11pm · Like

Rhol Ogy God doesn't not allow the person to resist.
And rape is sin. It is wicked. When God saves a person, it is the best thing that could happen to them. He sets them free. You should know better, because you seem smart, but your intellect is clouded by sin, so you end up saying foolish things quite often.
June 12 at 2:12pm · Like

Rhol Ogy As for substantive, hows about you refute my article about open theism sometime, Will? You haven't even tried. So I LOL at your accusation. Pathetic.
http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-god-of-open-theism-cant-know.htmlJune 12 at 2:13pm · Like · 1

Will Duffy //God doesn't not allow the person to resist.//

Really? What is "irresistible grace" then? Once God regenerates a person, can they choose to reject His grace? Yes or No?
June 12 at 2:16pm · Like · 1

Rhol Ogy You speak so confidently like you know Calvinism well; go ahead and answer for me and we'll see how well you do.
June 12 at 2:28pm · Like

Will Duffy That's just a game. I'm not interested in that.
June 12 at 2:29pm · Like

Rhol Ogy I know. You have your pet things, and when someone challenges you for real, this is how you act. Later.
June 12 at 2:34pm · Like

Friday, May 30, 2014

A Church In Trouble

This post is not about Ergun Caner, or Johnny Hunt. But before I get to what it is about, a few notes on what it’s not about. As you probably know, Johnny Hunt, of First Baptist Church of Woodstock, has invited Ergun Caner to fill his pulpit in July. What does this mean? Think about it. There are thousands of professing believers in that church, who have for better or worse entrusted some measure of oversight of their souls to Johnny Hunt. What does Pastor Hunt do with that tremendous and fearful responsibility? He invites a man in open and unrepentant sin to preach to the people for whose souls he will give an account, of course!A man who has lied and lied and lied some more. Caner lied in Dr Al Mohler’s face in public. He lied to untold thousands of Christians in public and on TV such as the John Ankerberg show. He lied to United States Marines, thus possibly putting their very lives in jeopardy. He used disgusting and filthy language in doing so and frequently uses very offensive terms about Muslims and Arabs. He lied to publishing houses like Kregel Publications, who published his book Unveiling Islam, thus enriching his own bank account by his deception. He sued fellow believers, righteous pastors, to cover up his own sin. He pretends to speak Arabic and instead just spouts gibberish in public. He acts with hatred toward his own brother. He thus has grievously wounded many evangelistic outreaches to Muslims, who watch with disgust as American evangelicals buy his book and invite him on the air, to their conferences, to their seminary convocations, to the presidency of their Bible colleges, and to their pulpits. He has been called on this, asked to repent, called to repent, pleaded with, many times, in private and in public. He is in open, unrepentant, grievous, repeated sin.

Will God look with favor upon Pastor Hunt and upon FBC Woodstock, as they not only stand idly by but actively seek such a man out and let him preach? They shouldn’t even let him be a member unless he publicly repents and confesses his sin, let alone preach from their pulpit! I shudder to think at God’s sentiments toward this action and toward those who made that decision.

Here is what this post is about.

I would like to propose an act of Christian service. Indeed, of worship of the Lord Jesus, of good to fellow professing believers, of benefit both to the universal Body of Christ as well as to the specific visible local church, FBC Woodstock. Pastor Hunt has failed his congregation. The leadership team has so far failed to rise up and put a stop to this foolish wickedness. The congregation has not (yet) arisen to call for an unconditional disinvitation to Caner and indeed a public rebuke and call to repentance, yet of course they are far less to blame than Pastor Hunt himself is, who clearly controls the invitations for his own pulpit.

If it should come to pass that this situation remain unchanged up to the very Sunday that Caner is scheduled to spew his nonsense at FBC Woodstock, without opposition, Christians who love the Word of God should rise up, show up, and speak up.
Members of FBC Woodstock, I hereby exhort you to call your leaders to repentance. Do it in love, of course. That goes without saying. True love obligates you not to turn a blind eye to sin. Do it. And if they will not repent, take a hard look at what the New Testament says you ought to do about it.
Members of other churches in the area, I exhort you – love your neighbors and the household of faith enough to make known your unwillingness to let sin rule the day.
Christians everywhere in the area – do not let the secular press and the world system do your job for you, of exposing evil in your own house.
If the leadership will not repent of inviting Caner, take to the streets outside FBC Woodstock, peacefully but with firm conviction. Think about ways you can communicate not only to those who choose to go in to sit under the teaching of a man who gives every indication that he does not know Jesus but also to the watching world that you love Ergun Caner and the people of FBC Woodstock too much to let this evil go unopposed! Use signs. Hand out pamphlets. Raise your voice to passing cars. Invite your whole church body out for this act of worship to the Lord Jesus. Sing songs of praise to Jesus while doing it. Teach the Word of God right there on the sidewalk. Ask your elder(s) to lead the way in this exposure of intolerance of unrepentant sin, of leaven within the Body of Christ.
If this seems like a radical step to you, consider that the Lord Jesus twice violently overturned tables on the grounds of the Temple. Consider that Jeremiah preached repentance from outside the gate of the Temple because he had been excommunicated and barred from entry to the Temple grounds, but refused to disobey the word of the Lord. Consider what your silence means. Consider that the opposite of love is not hatred, but rather indifference, and that’s exactly what you would be communicating not only toward Caner but also toward the people of FBC Woodstock and Pastor Hunt and the leadership team if you were to remain silent and just go about your normal business on that day. The opposite of love. The opposite of fulfilling the law. And why? Because you might be seen and recognised and you’d be putting your reputation on the line? Because you might lose friends? Because you are afraid? Because you are too occupied with your own Sunday morning rituals to go to the aid of those who badly need your voice and your call to holiness?

Why do it this way? Well, do you have a better idea? Why haven’t you implemented your better idea? Is it not the case that many, many avenues have been explored, many solutions sought, and still this unrepentant liar finds his way to elevated positions, to fill the air with his worldly nonsense? Is it not the case that while the case against Caner is indubitable, there are those who simply don’t care? Why don’t they care? It is because they have bigger fish to fry, in their minds, than truth and justice. This is wicked, and we ought to oppose Downgrade in the pastorate.

If Hunt and his team will not respect truth, might they respect a show of love and sacrifice and outrage against the acceptance of sin within the Body of Christ? There is only one way to find out.

And once you’ve found that out, I pray you’ll be stimulated to think deeply about other kinds of things the church ought to be doing, is not doing, and ought to repent of not doing, and that you will take loving action.

Friday, May 23, 2014

Avoiding schism at all costs

The Southern Baptist Convention has for some years been troubled by internal strife between Arminians who want to kick Calvinists out of it, justifying themselves with stupid arguments (like "Calvinists don't evangelise") (and yet I'm a Calvinist), and Calvinists who ultimately waste time by saying stuff like "But the guys who set up the institutions that later became the SBC were mostly Calvinists" (instead of sticking with "But the Bible says your soteriology is wrong. Let's debate it")

There are those who are pretty invested in trying to keep this tension from developing into full-blown fracture and schism. Politicians. Their intentions may be laudable, to keep men they truly regard as brothers from doing what they ought not do - cause division among brethren. But in staring at the Calvinism question, it is all too easy to ignore other more problematic signs of Downgrade.

Take, for example, Ronnie Floyd. He of the confetti cannon baptistry. This kind of stuff also happens on his watch. And yet Dr Al Mohler has all but ensured that Floyd will be the next President of the SBC. Why? Probably because he'll be more or less acceptable by both Arminians SoBaps and Calvinist SoBaps, so the tension can remain to be dealt with another day. Meanwhile, we get another big-shot megachurch pastor in a position to be put on a pedestal and imitated by those who think the favor of God is evidenced by lots of butts in pews.

Some costs are too high.

Thursday, May 22, 2014

That a Christian Assembly or Congregation has the Right and Power to Judge all Teaching and to Call, Appoint, and Dismiss Teachers, Established and Proven by Scripture

First, it is necessary to know where and what the Christian congregation is, so that men do not engage in human affairs (as the non-Christians were accustomed to do) in the name of the Christian congregation. The sure mark by which the Christian congregation can be recognized is that the pure gospel is preached there. For just as the banner of an army is the sure sign by which one can know what kind of lord and army have taken to the field, so, too, the gospel is the sure sign by which one knows where Christ and his army are encamped. We have the sure promise of this from God in Isaiah 55[:10–11], "My word" (says God) "that goes forth from my mouth shall not return empty to me; rather, as the rain falls from heaven to earth, making it fruitful, so shall my word also accomplish everything for which I sent it." Thus we are certain that there must be Christians wherever the gospel is, no matter how few and how sinful and weak they may be. Likewise, where the gospel is absent and human teachings rule, there no Christians live but only pagans, no matter how numerous they are and how holy and upright their life may be.

Thus it undeniably follows that bishops, religious foundations, monasteries, and all who are associated with them have long since ceased to be Christians or Christian congregations, even though they have claimed they are more entitled to this name than anyone else. For whoever recognizes the gospel sees, hears, and understands that even today they insist on their human teachings, have driven the gospel far away from themselves, and are still driving it away. That is why one should consider pagan and worldly what these people do and pretend.

Wednesday, May 21, 2014

Twisting the Calling

It is common in modern evangelical circles to speak of one’s “calling” to this or that.

A call to preach.

A call to mission work, and/or a specific country or people group.

A call to fulfill a certain ministry.

A call to carry out a certain task.

A call to speak to a specific person at a specific time.
Such language is sometimes used to explain why one is taking a specific course of action, or sometimes to defend one’s choice of behavior. Often it seems to me it is thrown out there with little thought to the necessary preconditions for the existence of “callings” as the term is used. Rarely do proponents of this idea wrestle substantively with the idea that such a thing would mean that God is specifically revealing His will in an extra-biblical way to the object of the revelation. And since the person who claims to have received the calling often refuses to consider that they might have been mistaken about what they received or whether they received it or whether it did indeed come from God, the calling is de facto treated as on par with Scripture, even though if challenged the claimant will almost always deny the equivalence.

We would expect, if God is in the business of dispensing specific callings to people about this or that ministry, to find guidance and wisdom about divine callings in the pages of Holy Writ, so that we could be sure that we were indeed hearing these callings from God and not the burblings of our flesh, fanciful imaginations, or the after-effects of yesterday’s burrito. To see if God has indeed left us any sure and solid guidance in His Word, I searched using Bible software for every single instance I could think of related to “calling”, “call”, “called”, “calls”, etc. I then threw out all the unrelated hits, such as Acts 28:1 – “After we were brought safely through, we then learned that the island was called Malta.” What remained I combed through and checked to see what it meant in its context. Did God intend to communicate in His Word that He would continually send individual people specific callings to specific tasks or ministries, going forward throughout the ages during which the church would subsist?

Before I continue, let me say that I think it is probably true that God does want people to carry out a specific ministry. In particular, in the United States, it is a far better work to carry out Gospel-centered agitation of the culture and of the church and to set apart assistance for helping women and children in the context of putting an end to the rampant murder and sacrifice of tiny image-bearers of God in the modern abortion Holocaust than it is to be in charge of your church’s laser light show, playing lead guitar for your church band’s rendition of AC/DC songs, or organising the helicopter-drop of 25,000 candy eggs on Easter Sunday.

My Findings

The point here, however, is that there is no indication in Scripture that individual believers should expect to receive direct divine guidance about whether to move to Country X, marry Person Y, or do Ministry Z. Such things are not communicated via internal “senses”, or “nudges”, or “impressions”. There is no biblical teaching that would lead us to expect that such is the case.
I organised my findings into categories that capture pretty well the meanings of each of the occurrences. Namely:

SPECIAL ONE-TIME CALLING FOR A SPECIFIC TASK

SPECIAL ONE-TIME SETTING APART AS APOSTLE

PAUL DISCUSSING HIS SPECIAL ONE-TIME SETTING APART AS APOSTLE TO THE GENTILES

INVITATION TO BE BORN AGAIN

EFFECTUAL CALL, ie, REGENERATION

SELECTION OF ISRAEL

A GENERAL COMMAND TO FOLLOW

INVITATION TO HEAVEN

There is a bit of overlap between some of these, particularly the setting apart as apostle and Paul’s discussion of his own calling as apostle to the Gentiles, and also the invitation to be born again and the effectual call, and I would not argue if someone desired a different arrangement of the passages contained therein.
What I did not find, however, is any indication of any kind that God “calls someone to preach” (ie, to be a pastor/elder), or that Christians should expect any other kind of divine revelation on a normative, recurring basis that God wants a specific Christian to perform a specific task or carry out a specific ministry.

You can see my organised data here. I also took screenshots for an alternative view.

Screen 1

Screen 2

Screen 3

Screen 4

What about 1 Corinthians 12?

This chapter was written to fulfill various purposes. One of them is to set forth the fact that the Holy Spirit “distribut(es) to each one individually just as He wills” the different spiritual gifts mentioned. Yet in what sense does this have to do with a “calling” as is frequently meant in modern churchianity? Someone who “felt a call to preach” could have any number of spiritual gifts. Administration, teaching, prophecy, word of knowledge, or some combination of those or of others. The same is true of one who “felt a call” to be a missionary in Morocco or Brazil. Spiritual gifts do not directly coincide with that action or ministry the person “feels called” to take or do. Rather, they are supernatural gifts that the Holy Spirit gives such that the gifted person may edify his or her neighbors and especially other Christians throughout their lives, no matter what they do.

The other main reason for this chapter is to build up in the sight of the Corinthian church the gifts that seemed to them less attractive. While they were, as Paul says later, to “pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy” (1 Cor 14:1), yet they were also to remember that “the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another” (1 Cor 12:22-25). In the particular case of the Corinthians, they held the gift of speaking in tongues in too high regard, which may be why the Apostle Paul lists tongues last in the order of God’s appointments in the church in v. 28. It is not difficult to see how a church that is so captivated by the gift of tongues might overlook and dishonor another Christian with the gift of mercy, or hospitality, which are less spectacular in their exercise, especially since chapter 11 reveals that many, especially the rich, in the church were very prone to overlooking and dishonoring their fellow church members. We see the same thing today with the gift of teaching and those who excessively glorify the gift of teaching and the office of elder.

Yet one will search in vain through this chapter for any kind of promise that God will somehow directly reveal to people what specific ministry they should take up in their lives. Even verse 28 – “And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues” – does not help the pro-“calling” position, as it merely identifies the fact that God has appointed teacherS and such. It does not go on to say “…and God will make sure that each of them receives theopneustos nudgings and impressions, veritable burblings from deep within, confirmed by other witnesses, friends, and elders, that will confirm that’s what s/he’s supposed to do to serve Him”. Nothing of the kind is indicated.

Rather, what is the first qualification for an elder in a church? 1 Timothy 3:1 – “if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.” If a man aspires to the office of overseer. If he does not, then he should not somehow be coerced into it; how well would he fulfill the responsibility in that case? Why does not Paul take the golden opportunity in 1 Timothy 3 or Titus 1 to explain that a man aspiring to the office of overseer must be called, must feel burblings deep within his soul that must be confirmed by external witnesses? Very simply, it is because Paul never had such a notion. It is a creation of human imagination from a later time, a human tradition.

What is the first move toward mission work? “And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, ‘All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age'” (Matthew 28:18-20). Why is more justification needed for going to seek out lost people with the Gospel and saying “we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God” (2 Cor 5:20) than that Jesus commanded us to do so and that people are dying without Jesus every day and going to Hell? Why dress up a desire to move to Zimbabwe with a phony baptismal certificate that “God called me to go to Zimbabwe”? Why not look at that place and say “Golly, nobody in ___ even knows the Gospel. I intend to do what I can by God’s power and grace to rectify that situation”?

Talk Like the Bible Does

Let us be careful and make an effort to use biblical language when we’re discussing spiritual realities. It is one thing to talk about, say, the Trinity, since the doctrine of the Trinity is heavily supported all throughout Scripture, from the first book to the last and everywhere in between. There is nothing necessarily wrong with introducing new vocabulary to encapsulate biblical concepts (such as the word “regeneration” or “hypostatic union”) to assist in communication, but shouldn’t there be a goodly amount of biblical backing for such a move? Using the word “calling” in the way that so many evangelicals use it today is what amounts to twisting the word as it is used in the Bible, which we should refuse to do at all costs.

In conclusion, I invite you to reconsider that the Scripture instructs us nowhere to listen to internal urgings or impressions as coming direct from God. Rather, does it not teach us that “the heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9)? What are our instructions, given the untrustworthiness of our hearts? “Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth” (Colossians 3:1-2). The murmurings of our hearts, which we can’t infallibly distinguish from fleshly lusts and desires, are most certainly things that are on earth. The Scripture is sufficient. Let us find our guidance only in it.

Psalm 19:7 – The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8The precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; the judgments of the LORD are true; they are righteous altogether.

After all, (and with a grateful hat-tip to Dan Phillips), how do you know I wasn’t called by God to write this article?

Monday, May 19, 2014

AHA Blog: Loving the Church - An Initial Reply to Justin Edwards

If the past is any indication, this will engender some whining on Facebook and zero substantive responses.
http://blog.abolishhumanabortion.com/2014/05/loving-church-initial-reply-to-justin.html

This kind of thing can just slip right by

From here, writing in reference to CS Lewis, Murphy says:

Not to mention that he wasn’t a Pastor or holding some office requiring Christians to really heed his words, he was an entirely different category.

What are we, Roman Catholics? Yikes. Neither John Piper nor anyone else is a member of some sort of Magisterium.
Let this be a brief reminder that we need to examine carefully our wording, and these days it's really important not to put elders and such on a pedestal like that.


Thursday, May 15, 2014

Tuesday, May 13, 2014

Lemme talk to your elders!

I'd like to call attention to a pattern that I've seen for a while among many in Reformedigelical circles. I've indirectly alluded to it before, such as in my review of Tony Miano's Should She Preach?.
Many in Reformed circles these days default to some variation of "Are you a member of a church? What do your elders think of what you just said?" in Internet encounters, and at times the questioner even demands the name and contact information of the interlocutor's elders so as to circumvent the issue under debate, to contact the elders directly, rather than dealing with the interlocutor himself. This turn of events is quite unhelpful, is intellectually dishonest, and displays a very unhealthy view of elder authority. Let me provide two examples of what I mean below the fold.

Evangélisation en France

Monday, May 12, 2014

Are you depriving yourself and others of your witness?

“Cry loudly, do not hold back; raise your voice like a trumpet, and declare to My people their transgression and to the house of Jacob their sins” (Isaiah 58:1).
Consider well, especially if you live in a city, that most of the people around you are not following Jesus, and are not headed for Heaven when they die. Consider also that, due in large part to the Modern Day Downgrade, most of them have never even heard the Law and the Gospel properly proclaimed or explained. Thus, humanly speaking, they have never even had the opportunity to repent of their sins and place their faith in Jesus to forgive them their sin and give them the gift of a new heart that loves to do good works and magnify Jesus as Lord and Savior as well as the gift of eternal life in the kingdom of God.

Consider well how many you can reach with your preferred methods of evangelism. How is that working for you? Are you close enough friends with your lost neighbor that you dare broach the topic of their sin and the Gospel, knowing full well (when you think about it) that the Gospel is an offense, and that you risk the friendship in talking about the fact that every day they live, their very soul is at risk? And how many will you share the Gospel with in 10 years, in this way? 20?

I do not mean to demean a strategy of evangelism that focuses on relationship. In some areas and in some countries, this is the only way. Yet consider this – hit the streets and you can share the Gospel with dozens, hundreds, even thousands in a single day. Because of you, the Gospel can go forth! You are a servant of the Most High God and you have been commanded to make disciples in all the world.

Consider this, too. We live in a time and place in which hitting the streets to share and proclaim the Gospel is by and large permitted and even most of the time ignored by law enforcement and government officials. That wasn’t always the case! Remember how the Apostle Paul and his friends were treated for their open-air ministry? With rare exceptions, such is not the case today.
So what are you waiting for? Jesus told His disciples to pray that the Lord of the harvest would send more workers out into the field. I have been praying that, myself, for years. You are the answer to that prayer! Go to your church, gather Christian friends, make a plan. Start by dropping dropcards (maybe like this one) during your daily life. Buy or make some tracts (or email me and I’ll give you a decent tract that I wrote), print them up, look around for a gathering of people, and give out your tracts. Invite people to converse with you about Jesus. It doesn’t have to be fancy. It can be, but it doesn’t have to be. “Hi there, my name’s Alan. I’d like to talk to you about Jesus for a minute. Would that be OK?”
What do you have to lose? Reputation? Standing in the eyes of the world? Suffering through anxiety leading up to the moment that you talk to your first person or hand out your first tract or, dare I say it, spit out your first open-air sermon? Count it all joy!

Do you have a testimony of how Jesus saved you from your sin? Do you know what the Bible teaches about how Jesus saves sinners? Do you think that people need to repent and trust Jesus? Then what’s stopping you from proclaiming such magnificent and glorious good news from the rooftops, or at least from atop a box or a street corner? (Yes, even if you’re a woman.)

Some years ago, I made a firm resolution that I was going to go out, on Halloween Reformation Day night and preach the Gospel in the open air. I didn’t want to, but I also did want to. I was terribly afraid. The day before, I had terrible anxiety and crazy stomach acid. I felt like I was developing an ulcer. The day of, the same. Fear, fear, fear, all the way up until I clambered atop the little stepladder I’d brought with me and belted out “Good evening, my friends, my name is Alan.” And then, just like that, the fear was gone. The grace of God flooded through me, and I thought “Whoa, this is awesome! I get to share the Gospel with 100 people at once!”

There has never been a time when the Lord Jesus has failed to bless me when I intentionally hit the streets to evangelise. The fear and anxiety have largely faded, such that sometimes I am barely even nervous.

Of course there are struggles. Of course one needs to know answers to some apologetic questions. Learn them!

Of course one needs to be accountable. Get accountable and gather a team or a partner, and go!

Of course one needs to go in a spirit of love. Pray, HARD, ask God to remove bitterness and pride from you, then go!

Of course one needs to know how to share the Gospel. Learn how, and go!
When will you ever get the opportunity to proclaim aloud / with people you’ve never met the glories of Jesus Christ, who bought you with His precious blood, if you don’t seek those opportunities out? How will you be better able to enourage other street evangelists who are, trust me on this one, usually quite desperate for others to join them as they hit the streets? How else will you be able to vastly multiply your outreach to the lost?

Let me just share with you a privileged moment I had just yesterday. I am currently in Paris, France on a trip that is half business and intentionally half mission, in cooperation with the good brethren at CEP Montreuil and other churches in the area. Here with my wife, kids, and an abolitionist friend, we got the opportunity to tract and preach at the Eiffel Tower and Champ de Mars in Paris last night. In a city of 15 million people, how can I be the only man lifting up his voice to glorify and magnify Jesus in the open air at one of the dozens of large gatherings of people? I don’t know, and I don’t mean to call others’ salvation into question or anything. I am asking you to examine yourself. Are you depriving yourself and others? Privilege and blessing await; God wants to pour out His grace on you when you step out in obedience.

What are you waiting for?

Monday, April 28, 2014

Answering a smorgasbord

"FunTime" writes in:

I like people that don't sit on the sidelines about something they believe in...BUT,  your thinking and position on abortion is not well thought out for many reasons.   I'm not offended by your actions, your  beliefs, you have that right, and I believe that you have the right to your religious views and practices , BUT remember,  others have the right to be FREE from your religious views and beliefs.
You are living in a vacuum if you think stopping LEGAL abortion will STOP ABORTION.  It will only put girls, and women in great risk of serious injury and death.  Have you spent anytime looking at what women had to do before abortion was legal?  You do realize they still got abortions don't you.    There are many reasons why women get abortions, and I can tell you from experience, most women who have abortions don't like doing it, and don't use it as a form of birth control, that's a FACT.. Most women don't make that choice easily
I find it interesting in this society that once the unwanted child is born, that mother is on her own...  If the republican party had it's way there would be no food stamps or welfare, and they are doing their best to cut these programs, NOW.    To ignore the reasons WHY many young girls and women get abortions in burying your head in the sand and not REALISTIC.    If you really wanted to stop abortion, you cause should be to teach and provide girls and women with the tools to not get PREGNANT in the first place, like free contraception and sexual education..  To ignore human sexuality and to think that abstinence is  the ANSWER is IGNORANT.    Women are raped, forced to have sex by a controlling partner, boyfriend, husband, birth control fails, incest..and many women believe sex is not only for procreation, if you can believe that!    You really think these circumstances will STOP.?    NOT!    Children born into unwanted pregnancies many times end up in the welfare system, and finally in the  criminal justice system, doing great damage to society along the way...Raping, killing, stealing.....   Again, your right to live you life abortion FREE is your RIGHT, BUT others have the RIGHT TO BE FREE OF YOUR BELIEFS.    You will not win this battle...this is just common sense.   You cannot legislate human nature....  Preach CONTRACEPTION, and you will save more lives, and prevent more ABORTIONS,  then you every will with your current approach.  If you really wanted to accomplish the goal of making abortion rare, then preventing pregnancies is the ANSWER.    Put all the energy you have into that goal and you will do mankind and GOD a great service.     Thank you for your time.
Hello Whatever Your Name Is,

I'm glad you're not offended. That's open minded of you.
On one level of course people have the right not to be persuaded by our arguments - that's 1st Amdmt. But on a deeper level, nobody is at liberty to murder children or think that Jesus is not Lord, and Jesus will not have patience forever. He will pour out wrath on evildoers like those who think abortion is OK. So that liberty is at a more important level totally imaginary, and we want to warn people.

We don't only want to illegalise abortion. Stick around; we very often say that we are at war with the worldview in which abortion is thinkable in the first place. But I LOL when you say that abolition puts women at risk of injury and death. Open your eyes. Women are seriously injured and killed by abortions all over the place TODAY. Further, babies ALWAYS die. So don't say that kind of foolish thing.

Why don't women make that choice easily? It's because they KNOW it's a CHILD they're MURDERING. If abortion is merely health care, it's the easiest decision in the world. Nobody frets over a tonsillectomy.

We don't want to leave the mother on her own. That's a lie that you've believed from the media b/c like most Americans you're probably a faithful sheeple. Open your eyes. Nanny-state healthcare is not the answer. We refuse to give a bad answer to a tough question. The answer is to awaken the culture to care for women in these situations and give them love and the Gospel of Jesus, and yes, to shame those who hate the truth and who think that murder is the answer to their own bad choices. that choice should be shamed.
Further, women can get free healthcare TODAY; 0bamacare isn't needed. A humble heart to ask for help is what is needed.

We do teach people not to get pregnant. there is a 100% effective means of doing so - abstinence. The Lord Jesus commands everyone to flee from sexual immorality. It's not ignorant. Condoms work 80% of the time WHEN THEY ARE USED. Abstinence works 100% of the time WHEN IT IS USED. Why would we push an inferior method? Why would we disobey Jesus? Give me a good reason to disobey Jesus.

Rape is a tiny, tiny subset of abortion. I see you checked the FAQ. I'm glad you did. Here's the specific link:
http://abolishhumanabortion.com/faq/#the-rape-exception

19th century slaveowners used to tell abolitionists they'd never abolish slavery. Yet here we are. The Lord Jesus is in control. You don't even have enough courage to use a real email address and name. LOL at your bravado.

Preach contraception, eh? That is advice straight from the devil. No, we will preach Christ, and Him crucified.
http://abolishhumanabortion.com/the-gospel/

Yes, we will help women who are in unexpected pregnancies, we have done so, and we will do so again. It doesn't matter what their father's crimes were. So we're not all talk. To say that shows you don't know anything about us. You probably think we're pro-life.

Say, I'd like to ask you a question. You seem to think hypocrisy is a bad thing. How do you know that hypocrisy is bad? What is your standard of moral measurement? Who made you Pope of Morality, that you can sit there and dictate to others that hypocrisy is evil? Speaking of critical thinking. Good luck answering that question in a way that doesn't make a total hash of your worldview.

Peace,
Rhology


Friday, April 18, 2014

Jesus Did

Extended email discussion with a professing Satanist. I urge him to repent and be reconciled to God.
He asks: Who makes peace with their greatest enemy?

I answer: Jesus did.

Romans 5:6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

1 Timothy 1:12I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, 13even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; 14and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. 17Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

How He is merciful and kind! Glorify Him today on the day in which we remember His propitiatory sacrifice!

Thursday, April 17, 2014

A public call to repentance of calling people to repent publicly

I'm not sure how this makes much sense. I'm not sure how deeply the author (either Marcus Pittman or Jon Speed) thought about the statement. I'm not sure how deep runs the foolishness, but I know that after months and months of plumbing the depths, we haven't found the bottom yet.

Now we're deleting comments. We have received your response, AHA leaders. We urge you to repent of "Church Repent." When you have done that and are in good standing with your respective local churches...we will talk. Until then...please take the hint and stop commenting here.

(source) (screenshot)

So, let me get this straight. This is a public statement, made by one professing Christian who is a member of a different local church than the persons the author is addressing, to other professing Christians, calling them to repent of and stop calling members of a different local church than the persons the author is addressing to repentance over perceived sin.

In other words, they're publicly calling me to repent of publicly calling people to repent.

Sometimes...just, what do you say anymore?

Really, since that statement makes no sense, Christians who love God with all their mind should publicly call the Gospel Spam guys to repent of publicly calling to repentance Christians who publicly call professing Christians to repentance.

Monday, April 14, 2014

The Nomad

Follow me on the timing of this.

September 11, 2011, Tony Miano joins Faith Community Church.
(source) (screenshot)

~August 2012, Miano "began a process with my elders, the goal of which was to have my elders commission me, through the laying on of hands, to serve Faith Community Church as an evangelist, in keeping with the role of an evangelist as delineated in Ephesians 4:11-14".

~March 2013 - Jon Speed and the Babies Are Murdered Here / Gospel Spam / Street Preacher Guild group publicly dissociate from Abolish Human Abortion because of www.churchrepent.com.
Miano stands with them.

September 2, 2013 - Miano makes the following announcement on his Facebook page.














In other words, Tony Miano announces his intention to engage in a Church Repent activity toward Bethel Church in Redding, CA. Before his church elders have laid hands on and commissioned him to be an evangelist representing their church.
(source) (screenshot)


December 2013 - the elders of Faith Community Church "found aspects of my evangelistic gifting and ministry (namely, open-air preaching) philosophically incompatible with the evangelistic direction the elders have set forth for the Faith Community Church family. That being the case, the elders determined they could not lay hands on me and commission me to serve Faith Community Church as an evangelist."

In between December 2013 and February 2014 - Miano decides to leave that church because they won't officially commission him as an evangelist.


March 2, 2014 - Miano joins Grace Community Church because his other church wouldn't commission him an evangelist like I guess he wanted to be.

March 27, 2014 - Miano publishes his hatchet piece on abolition based partly on the fact that he thinks abolitionists lack local church elder authority to do what we do.
(His article) (Our refutation)

August 2016 - Miano leaves Grace Community Church (John MacArthur's church) to join up with some church in Iowa and "sit under the authority" of a pastor who has adultery and divorce in his past and yet who regularly "shepherds" women and girls one-on-one alone in private. And one of his closest allies, Chuck O'Neal, is sounding the alarm about Miano's discernment, which is either suffering from massive downgrade or has always been this bad. (I favor the latter hypothesis, personally.)
Sometimes... you just can't make this stuff up.



Now, if we were to ask whether Miano's elders at Faith CC thought it was permissible for him to engage in a Church Repent action toward Bethel Church, that would be less than helpful. One of the main thrusts of the criticism of Church Repent from the Babies Are Murdered Here / Gospel Spam / Street Preacher Guild group (of which Miano serves as one of the foremost luminaries and most listened-to voices) has always been that abolitionists have no authority to rebuke or exhort another local church, and that because our elders did not send us out for that specific purpose.


Leaving aside the fact that numerous abolitionists have been explicitly blessed in carrying out Church Repent by their elders, is it possible to escape the conclusion that Miano himself planned to rebuke a church without being sent out by his own elders?
And so he has decided to leave that church and forsake those elders because they wouldn't give him what he wanted - official commission as an evangelist. He could have stayed there and worked through the issues with those elders. He chose to leave and see if someone else would do so.

And what if we were to ask Phil Johnson at Grace Community Church of SoCal whether Miano was submitted to his pastoral/elder/overseer/bishop/episcopal authority when he decided to leave John MacArthur's church in favor of a guy who likes to take women into his confidence in the privacy of his office? It sounds like Miano is rootless and looking for anyone who will take him in and give him the affirmation he apparently desires from a father figure. 

What's the word for that? Ah, yes - nomadic.

Friday, April 04, 2014

Why Damon Rambo is Acting Like a Pharisee

---------------------------
UPDATE, 10 March 2017: 
Damon Rambo has made a public statement that looks mostly like repentance, so let's be gracious and give him credit for it. Combined with the fact that he has deleted the posts on his blog to which my own blogposts refer, I am noting the facts here in this update so that all may be informed of the current situation. Note that he has not taken down any comments on other blogs such as Gospel Spam, which probably means he has not done as rigorous and thorough a job of scrubbing his slanderous and wicked comments as I would ask if I had opportunity. Thus, my own posts will remain public and all links will point to Archive.org records of his posts until further notice. 
---------------------------

So Damon Rambo wonders why I deploy the "P" word regarding him.

What sort of extra-biblical, fundamentalist, outlandish rule have I invented? I dared to say that all Christians should be a part of a church, with a recognized membership, and at least one proper recognized and called pastor/elder. I have insisted that those who refuse the local church and its discipleship, fellowship and authority, are living in sin.

But that's not the problem here. He has misunderstood the objection. Let me try to clarify.

Here is his exact quote from before:

Such people are in grievous sin, and until that sin is repented of, further fellowship, discussion, and hashing out of differences cannot be had. Those who deliberately reject the visible expression of Christ's Bride must be excommunicated from any secondary fellowship, until such time as the Lord brings them to repentance.

Emphasis mine.
Look, I disagree that the people in question are in sin. Is Rambo willing to list postmillennialists, continuationists, Presbyterians, or Arminians as being in sin? Maybe he does; I'm just asking. Is he willing to say the same thing about them? Will he excommunicate Marcus Pittman for being Presbyterian and postmillennial? That's two areas in which Rambo disagrees with him.
If not, is he being consistent? What in the Scripture leads him to the conclusion that not having elders at one's church for the moment is something for which we should consider the offender damned and heretical? That's what excommunication is for, after all. It's way past saying "I disagree". We know Rambo disagrees. Disagreements happen all over the place about all sorts of issues. But we are not to excommunicate for minor issues. What is his argument that this differing ecclesiology jumps over the heresy fence? He didn't give one. But the thing is, if you're going to kick professing brethren out and deny them your fellowship, you need to have an argument.

That's why Rambo is a Pharisee - he is imposing this small issue on the conscience of other believers without the benefit of an argument, and in fact directly against what the New Testament teaches.
Who appointed Martin Luther? Zwingli? Calvin? Did they have elders?
Athanasius was removed from his bishopric several times and exiled, yet came back. Does Rambo have some evidence that another elder came alongside and re-appointed him? Does excommunication not mean anything? If church structures are only to be followed in some cases, where is Rambo's definition and explanation?
Acts 11:19-25 - Barnabas goes and helps preach the Gospel in Antioch, and yet doesn't stay to establish elders. Rather, he leaves to look for Paul. And yet there comes to be a church in Antioch (as soon as Acts 15:30). How?
Acts 13:44-52 - Paul and Barnabas are driven out of Pisidian Antioch after only about a week.
According to the qualifications for elders in Titus 1 and 1 Timothy 3, an elder can't be a new convert. I suppose we are to assume that no church existed in Pisidian Antioch at that time? Just... a ragtag bunch of people who loved Jesus?
Acts 17:32-18:1 - Paul sees converts in Athens but doesn't stay to train any elders.
The Epistle to Titus - Paul sends Titus to Crete to appoint elders in all the churches. There were churches there. They didn't have elders. Titus was supposed to appoint some. In the churches that already existed. Even though they didn't have elders at the time.

So that is what Rambo has done to deserve the label "Pharisee".

A few more comments on his article:
Its (sic) hard to throw people out of a group (1 Corinthians 5, Matthew 18) that is just a bunch of people hanging out in a field

1) Elders are not mentioned or even implied to be involved in any special or necessary sense in either of these passages.
2) How did Rambo get from the fact that this one local church in question doesn't have elders at the moment to "just a bunch of people hanging out in a field"? He does not inform us.


Wielding the story of the Good Samaritan like a club, the leadership of AHA insist that they are right, others are wrong...which they wield clumsily like a child swinging a sword

1) But is not Rambo "wielding" the NT passages about elders "like a club" or "like a sword"? Why is it so bad to try to persuade others, or defend one's church against divisive criticisms like that in which Rambo has heartily participated in recent months?
2) Of course we think we are right. Yet we remain open to biblical correction. Does Rambo think we ought to hold to positions we think are wrong? I don't understand the problem here.
3) Are these the words of someone who put a great deal of thought into his article?


any church that does not do exactly what they say in regards to abortion are in sinful rebellion and in need of repentance...ONLY abortion ministry matters

1) This is mistaken on his part. He does not understand the ideology, and I suspect it is b/c he has not done his homework.
2) Is it not true to say that any church that does not do exactly what Rambo says in regards to elder rule is in sinful rebellion and in need of repentance, in his mind?
3) Yet have abolitionists excommunicated anyone in that situation? No. Has Rambo, for his part? Yes.


Abolish Human Abortion calls out, pickets, and dare I say ATTACKS...pro-life churches

1) I don't know why Rambo is defending LifeChurch.tv.
2) It would be nice if he would explain how calls to repentance and exhortation are "attacks". Is this not merely his prejudiced language?


(Perhaps in order to stay in AHA's good graces, you need to purchase their materials? Just asking).

Accusations unbecoming of a pastor. Very unfair of him to say such a thing.


The abolitionist who gets in his car and drives two hours, past stranded motorists, nursing homes full of elderly patients

1) Rambo mistakenly believes that abolitionists think that going to the abortion mill is the way abortion is to be abolished. He is mistaken. It's probably because, again, he is ignorant. Sadly, he seems unwilling to learn what we actually believe.
2) Is it legal and culturally accepted to murder stranded motorists and nursing home residents en masse? Are 3500 of those kinds of people being murdered by their mothers and fathers every day?
3) For my part, if I were on my way to the abortuary and saw a stranded motorist, I would stop to help. Is Rambo being charitable and fair here?


There is only one litmus test for the health of a church, and that is the Gospel.

Preaching the correct Gospel correctly is a necessary condition for a healthy church but it is far from the sole sufficient condition. Holy living, non-heretical views on the Trinity and Christology, pastors that don't fleece the flock and such... these kinds of things also have a very large impact on the health of a church.


you understand that ANY proclamation of the Gospel is a blow against abortion

Agreed. Which is why we wish Rambo would turn his critical attention to the vastly compromised pro-life movement, who show that they do not agree with this statement with every action they take.


Not the Gospel plus abortion ministry done in accordance with AHA's extrabiblical requirements.

Another unfair characterisation of abolitionists' views.


And the Gospel is to be ministered through the local Church.

1) What does this mean?
2) I suspect we will wait in vain for him to argue for whatever his position means from Scripture.

Wednesday, April 02, 2014

Abolitionist ecclesiology

It should be noted that not all abolitionists agree on EVERY SINGLE FINE POINT of ecclesiology.
Kinda like single-pastor Baptists don't agree with plural-elder Baptists don't agree with Presbyterians, etc. Yet somehow the two latter groups work closely, make documentaries, street preach together and all that kind of stuff. Hmmm. Why are Damon Rambo and his friends so quick to dissociate from abolitionists?

Abolitionists do tend closely to one ecclesiological point, however - we reject quasi-papism such as the type that Speed, Pittman, Miano, and Rambo represent. Take that to the bank.

Tuesday, April 01, 2014

Damon Rambo makes more of a hash of Scripture

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UPDATE, 10 March 2017: 
Damon Rambo has made a public statement that looks mostly like repentance, so let's be gracious and give him credit for it. Combined with the fact that he has deleted the posts on his blog to which my own blogposts refer, I am noting the facts here in this update so that all may be informed of the current situation. Note that he has not taken down any comments on other blogs such as Gospel Spam, which probably means he has not done as rigorous and thorough a job of scrubbing his slanderous and wicked comments as I would ask if I had opportunity. Thus, my own posts will remain public and all links will point to Archive.org records of his posts until further notice. 
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Damon Rambo, a pastor in Texas whom we've seen before around here, decided to add his ever so helpful thoughts to the comment box of Tony Miano's hit piece at Gospel Spam. It would appear that the "Angry Pastor" not only pastors angry, but blogs angry too.

I am not sure why Tony "exited the conversation" but I can say for myself that the first question out of my mouth would have been "Are you preaching under the accountability of a local church, with established elder(s) and a recognized membership." If he said "no," the conversation would have ended right there. Such people are in grievous sin, and until that sin is repented of, further fellowship, discussion, and hashing out of differences cannot be had. Those who deliberately reject the visible expression of Christ's Bride must be excommunicated from any secondary fellowship, until such time as the Lord brings them to repentance.
To give a little background as to what he means, a few good brothers in the Lord have attempted to kick-start reconciliation talks between the Babies Are Murdered Here / Street Preacher Guild / Gospel Spam / quasi-papist / anti-Church Repent and therefore pro-Church Apathy / Pharisee crowd, among whom Rambo evidently prefers to be numbered, and abolitionists against whom the aforementioned Pharisees have sinned in numerous ways. I was party to one of these attempts; the brother started a group Facebook chat which included three abolitionists and three anti-abolitionist antagonists, and posted therein an impassioned plea for a beginning to reconciliation and cessation of social media hostilities. Marcus Pittman left the chat within thirty seconds of the appearance of the chat. Tony Miano exited a couple of minutes later after stating to the organiser of the chat that he'd talk to him privately.





Anyway, from the screenshots and the way that the various sides are talking, it should be clear to any objective observer who is open to God-honoring reconciliation and who is not, who wants to engage in serious discussion exposed to the light of truth, and who wants to cut off discussion and debate.

Damon Rambo, according to his own words here, is another Pharisee who would impose an extra-biblical standard upon others. Here, he lets us know in no uncertain terms that he would have excommunicated Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli, as well as any believers who dared to speak the Gospel to someone else before the apostles appointed elders in their local church in Acts 11:19-25, Acts 13:44-52, and Acts 17:32-18:1, to say nothing of Philip the evangelist who was just sort of wandering around when the Holy Spirit directed him to evangelise the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8, to say still less of the eunuch himself when he went back to his homeland and shared the Gospel with people there. If only Rambo had been around back then! The NT church would have been so much better organised and godly.

As a matter of fact, Toby's church is between elders at the moment. Rambo doesn't know the history of the church, doesn't know what they think about elders or whether they want elders. Why? Because he hasn't even cared enough to ask. He prefers to lob his tirades from afar, uncaring of the effect his dismissal has on the reader. This is not conduct conducive to demonstrating the NT qualifications of elder. Would the Apostle Paul be OK with blogging under the title "The Angry Pastor" or "The Angry Apostle"? Why doesn't 2 Timothy 4:1-2 read like the following?
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be angry in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great anger and hot-temperedness.

I feel genuinely sorry for the congregation at his church, but then again, his expressions are probably not nearly as evil in person as they are online. It's a learned skill, to be sure. One would think a pastor could manage it. But in my experience, churches usually deserve the kind of pastor they have, which is also a pretty sad thing.

He also speaks out of ignorance when he implies that Toby's church lacks recognised membership. He doesn't know that either. He has no idea what sort of accountability structures are in place there. Notice that to him, "under the accountability of a local church" is code for "elders". When these men say "submitted to the authority of a local church" or something similar, what they have in mind is one or more elders who do what the Lord Jesus and the Apostle Peter said they should not do - lord it over their people.

I find it quite interesting that Rambo, as a Baptist, thinks that dissent from his preferred ecclesiology is "grievous sin", for which one ought to be excommunicated and for which reason one ought not to cooperate on any level of Christian service or ministry. Why doesn't he say the same things about Marcus Pittman, a Presbyterian, again? Where is the consistency?

Who said anything about Toby or any abolitionist "deliberately reject(ing) the visible expression of Christ's Bride"? Does he think that Toby is not a member of his church? What does he know about that church? He doesn't know anything. Apparently, dissent from his preferred ecclesiology is equivalent to deliberate rejection of Christ's Bride. Needless to say, this is an enormous accusation. Can Rambo substantiate it from Scripture? He hasn't yet. Can he show that holding to a differing ecclesiology merits the same treatment as one would show to a material heretic and an unrepentant sexually immoral professing brother? If he can't (and let's be clear - he can't), is Damon Rambo not acting as a Pharisee?

Philippians 1:12-18 -
Now I want you to know, brethren, that my circumstances have turned out for the greater progress of the gospel, so that my imprisonment in the cause of Christ has become well known throughout the whole praetorian guard and to everyone else, and that most of the brethren, trusting in the Lord because of my imprisonment, have far more courage to speak the word of God without fear. Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice.