Tuesday, December 16, 2008

Discussion with Sepherim

Sepherim from the aforementioned Bruce Prescott's blogpost has stopped by to continue the discussion we've been having over there. I'll just move our interaction to this new post.

Howdy Sepherim! Welcome.

no I am not an atheist posing as a baptist.

OK, good. :-) And just so you know, I'm a Calvinistic Baptist who attends a conservative SBC church.

am not a doctrinaire or doctinial or confessional Christian

Yeah, I got that from reading a few of your posts and your profile.

I do not see the traditional doctrines as particularly helpful when it comes to determining how God would have me live my life.

Hmmm. So the difference between Law and Gospel (which is a doctrinal question) doesn't help?
Or the doctrine of man? Or knowing what worship offends God and what is accepted by Him? Or what authority the Bible has? All those are doctrinal questions. Orthodoxy informs orthopraxy.

I no longer accept claims that if God says/does something it is good by default.

So what is the standard for good, if not God? That's one of the reasons I wondered if you were an atheist, b/c that's a classic problem for atheism.

God, being without sin, is qualified to cast the first stone.

Absolutely. It's like Jesus said:
Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:22-23).

Jesus is without sin and He is everyone's judge. He didn't judge the first time around (John 3:17), but He will the 2nd time.

Jesus could have cast the first stone but chose not to.

Right. He warned that all will face judgment at death or at His 2nd Coming. Thank God for the time and opportunity to repent that He provided!
Now let us not overstep the bounds He's drawn; let us repent NOW. "Today is the day of salvation."

And regarding my being a hypocrit, I am unapologetically critical of ignorance where ever I find it

1) You seemed to be labeling the biblical positions that I am expressing a "ignorance" and therefore worthy of critique, which is why I bring it up.
2) You also acted like being critical is bad, but of course you are being critical of me. If you'd like to retract that, that's fine. Retractions are certainly OK around here!

I do find it somewhat disingenuous for you to claim "I'm not 'throwing stones' at all" by limiting what has become a common metaphor for self-righteous criticism to a woodenly literal meaning.

That's rich - you're apparently permitted to interpret the Bible whatever way you want to, but I don't get the same liberty with your own comments!
But feel free to point out where I am *SELF*-righteous. Rather, I think I express biblical ideas and expose error for what it is. I myself am a worm, a dirty sinner, given an awesome gift that I could never even get close to deserving. Bragging about how awesome Jesus and His truth are is not self-righteousness, I hope you'll agree.

(Quoting me) "Haven't I instead spent my time holding people to a better standard of reasoning and devotion to God, pointing out inconsistencies and blasphemies?"

Well, haven't I? Let's discuss where you think I haven't done so! That's why I blog.


Paul C said...

So what is the standard for good, if not God?

Call for you, Mr Euthyphro.

Rhology said...

Hmm, we might have been over that a few times...

Paul C said...

And still no convincing response. (Except in the comfort of your own mind, of course.)

Sparrowhawk said...

Well, Rhology, humor us and go over it again, or point us to a blogpost in which you did go over it.

Rhology said...

Euthyphro dilemma = is it good b/c God commanded it, or did God command it b/c it's good?

The answer is the latter, with a qualification related to the nature of good vs how it is known to humans.
Good = that which corresponds to God's nature and character.
The way we know good = God communicates commands to us that correspond to His nature and character.

Lucian said...

We interrupt this blog to bring You a special bulletin:

Merry Christmas, Rho! :) And Happy Holidays to You and Your entire little family! :) God bless!