Friday, December 20, 2013

Just another question-begging atheist


I decided for some reason to challenge a couple of hateful comments at this video of a pro-lifer sidewalk counseling at the Orlando Child Sacrifice Den.The conversation has so far been decently interesting.

Lady you need medication. You don't even listen the bullshit you are spewing.

"...life that was written for you since the beginning of time"

That means dog wrote the abortion into his plan. Stupid ass.

Stop indoctrinating your poor children.

 · 



+IZMarkosKN650r It's no surprise you're entirely ignorant of the two wills of God, and the command He gave us to teach Jesus to everyone in the world.

And what you call indoctrination I call good parenting - setting an example, teaching the truth. If you think it's false, I challenge you to debate. You'll lose. Badly.

 · 


Disclaimer: That's not to say that I will not allow my children to explore their faiths even if I am an atheist. If they wish to believe in the Christian god, so be it - I will even support them - only as long as they come to that conclusion themselves.

Thursday, December 12, 2013

So yeah, I wasted some time today

I should've quit long before but I couldn't help it.

WARNING: Very profane language below the fold. What "God Killer" lacks in argument or intelligence, he tries to make up for with foulness.


Friday, December 06, 2013

Head deep in the sand

Southern Baptists continue to bury their heads in the sand about Ergun Caner and his ever-growing mountain of lies and deception. As low an opinion as I have recently had over the denomination to which I recently belonged, I have found I was still too bullish on it.

See more here.

Tuesday, December 03, 2013

"Should She Preach?" by Tony Miano - A Review

Highly experienced street evangelist Tony Miano has written a book titled Should She Preach? Biblical Evangelism for Women, and generously offered a free electronic copy to any blogger who would read it and offer a review. I contacted him and he graciously sent me a copy.

Before I begin, while there are things about Brother Tony with which I disagree here and there, I have an enormous amount of respect for the man. I do not entirely agree with the major points of his book but I target that disagreement specifically and only to the brother's position. In no way do I intend to impugn his character or his witness in this review. I love and appreciate him for many things, so I pray the reader will take that into account as I move forward.

I do not want to belabor or repeat the points he makes in this book. As I have had to squeeze reading it around many other responsibilities and priorities, I would like to put out what I have been able to glean in this way and leave fuller reviews to others.

Brother Tony's book does not succeed in proving his case for a few reasons.

Friday, November 15, 2013

Tuesday, November 05, 2013

Thursday, October 24, 2013

I don't get humans sometimes

RC Sproul Jr, for whom I have had a good deal of respect (though I'm unsure whether it's warranted), biffs it:

RCSJr: Were we motivated by God's glory alone our biggest concern about Steve Furtick would not be the square footage of his house.


ME: It's legitimate to be concerned with both. :-)
I am quite concerned that a pastor be qualified, and someone who lives in a huge mansion is going to have a hard time having a good reputation with outsiders, for one thing.
A pastor above all should take care about his appearance because he is the most obvious representative of the Gospel that many people see.
A pastor above all should eschew the apperance of overt wealth for that reason.

A large income is not the problem. Spending it on yourself is.


RCSJr: So Rho are you saying that having the appearance of wealth is having the appearance of evil? You are saying that having the appearance of wealth causes one to lose his good reputation? Is it possible for a believer to have a bad reputation with those outside the church, and still be qualified? I'm familiar with the text, and it certainly is true. But we need to understand what it is saying. If it is saying, "People in the world can't complain about you" then Jesus is not qualified. I would suggest that it actually means "People in the world can't legitimately complain about you." So, for instance, a man who doesn't pay his bills, or is unfaithful to his wife might legitimately have a bad reputation with the world around him. A man who has a big house, or who disapproves of sexual perversion, or abortion, might have a bad reputation with the world. But since he has done nothing wrong, it is actually persecution for righteousness sake, not disqualification for office. Hope that helps.

Finally Rho, where in the Bible does it say a man can't buy a big house for himself?


ME: Hello brother RC,

\\having the appearance of wealth is having the appearance of evil?\\

Pastors are supposedly men who love the next world more than they love the pleasures of this one. If a pastor is spending a whole lot of money on himself, what will outsiders think? They'll think he loves money, and they'll think hey doesn't Jesus say something about denying yourself and taking up your cross and all that? It hinders and doesn't help. So yes.

\\You are saying that having the appearance of wealth causes one to lose his good reputation?\\

In the eyes of quite a few, yes. I can't count how many times ppl have argued against the Gospel with "look at those rich preachers" with me personally.

\\ If it is saying, "People in the world can't complain about you" then Jesus is not qualified. \\

That's not what it's saying, as you well know.

\\I would suggest that it actually means "People in the world can't legitimately complain about you."\\

And we're not supposed to love the things of this world. Like 16K sq ft houses.

\\where in the Bible does it say a man can't buy a big house for himself?\\

The same place it says "God is a Trinity". That a PASTOR IN PARTICULAR ought to eschew such is an obvious inference from the numerous passages that warn us against loving wealth and seeking pleasures of this world.


RCSJr: Rho, how many square feet does a house have to have to be a thing of this world? And if pastors are not to have nice things, are non-pastors allowed to have nice things? If I invented a cure for cancer could how many square feet am I allowed to have? If I decide then to become a pastor, how much smaller of a house must I change to? In addition, am I allowed to marry a beautiful wife? Is that a "thing of this world?" Should pastors only marry ugly women, to prove to scoffers that their pleasures are in the next world? Now, suppose I move to Africa. Suppose I, having cured cancer, and earning billions in the marketplace, but having now become a missionary, may I have a 1000 square foot house, with running water, internet, electricity, even though my wealth might upset my unbelieving neighbors, or make them, who have none of these things, think I love the things of this world? I'm afraid your additions to the law of God here are not only unbiblical but unworkable. It is a bad thing to lust after money. It is a bad thing to depend on money. It is a bad thing to proudly display money, to see it as some sort of accomplishment to be proud of. It is not, however, a bad thing to earn money. And it is a wicked thing to fail to give thanks to God for all that he provides.


ME:
\\how many square feet does a house have to have to be a thing of this world\\

I think that is a lot like asking how much cleavage has to be shown to be porn.
I don't have an answer but I know one family does not need 16k sq ft. Do you disagree?

\\ And if pastors are not to have nice things, are non-pastors allowed to have nice things?\\

I didn't say "no nice things". But pastors ought to pay VERY close attention.
Pastors are biblically held to a higher standard, so that's why.

\\If I decide then to become a pastor, how much smaller of a house must I change to?\\

I don't know but I should think that RETAINING a 16k sq ft house that one already had would be more defensible than BUILDING one once a pastor.

\\ Should pastors only marry ugly women, to prove to scoffers that their pleasures are in the next world?\\

1) It's not only scoffers. Real people have these issues with big rich fat cat pastors.
2) Who would deride someone for marrying a beautiful woman? Do you really know someone like that?

\\may I have a 1000 square foot house, with running water, internet, electricity, even though my wealth might upset my unbelieving neighbors, or make them, who have none of these things, think I love the things of this world?\\

Yes, the inevitable Africa argument. I don't think it's a good argument, however. Humans are a specific size and shape. 1000 sq ft is not excessive for one family. 16k is.

\\I'm afraid your additions to the law of God here are not only unbiblical but unworkable.\\

I don't believe I am adding to the law of God. I have referred to Jesus' and James' words on wealth and the qualis for pastors in Titus and 1 Tim.

\\It is a bad thing to depend on money.\\

But mansions are totally fine?
I don't understand what you're arguing here.

\\It is a bad thing to proudly display money, to see it as some sort of accomplishment to be proud of.\\

16,000 square feet!
Thousand! That's a lot.

\\It is not, however, a bad thing to earn money\\

Brother, EARNING money is not the issue here. SPENDING gobs of money on a HUGE HOUSE is the issue here.


RCSJr: Wish I knew how to do all that formatting you are doing. I don't know any families that need 16000 sq ft. But then I don't take the position that one can only have what one needs. You do. Since you are taking that position, it is incumbent on you to tell us how we can draw the right conclusions. If you take the porn, "you know it when you see it" approach, what do we do about that fact that me, and Mr. Furtick do not see it, but you do? You are going to judge him for how he spends his money? When did Mr. Furtick become big and fat? And a cat? And why are those bad things. You seem to suggest that it is a sin to be rich. Then you fail to see my point on Africa. Rich is a relative term. Would it be right for Africans to look down their noses at you because you have more sq ft per person than they do, very likely the gap between you and they is greater than the gap between you and Furtick? That is, a ten foot by ten foot shack, for a family of five in Africa provides 20 sq ft per person. If you are in a 1700 square foot home and have 5 people, that is 340 sq ft per person, 17 times as much. A 16,000 square foot home with 5 people affords 3200 sq st a person, less than 10 times more than the 1700 foot house.


ME: I just add \\ (above the Enter key) before and after, to point out the point I'm replying to in stepwise fashion. Nothing fancy.

I disagree but I think the conversation has run its course. In all sincerity, thank you for your time and thoughts, and I pray God's blessings on you.


RCSJr: Depending on money is a matter of the heart. It can be done by a guy in a shack, or a guy in a mansion. Displaying wealth can be done by a guy in a shack, or a guy in a mansion. But, if you give thanks for God's provision for your labors, pay your tithes, then no man can rightly judge you, whether you are in a shack or a mansion. Jesus' and James' warnings were directed against those who trust in their wealth, who make it their security, who are not grateful to God. But the Bible has plenty of godly men who were profoundly wealthy, and who enjoyed the wealth God gave them. And all of us, in eternity, will be immeasurably wealthy, living in mansions on streets of gold. That friend, means having wealth is not bad..


ME: \\having wealth is not bad..\\

Agreed there!


RCSJr: Finally, the point about ugly women you sidestepped. Who would deride someone for having a beautiful wife? The same people who would deride someone for being worldly simply because they have a large house. Beauty, like wealth, is fleeting. If having one is proof that you are guilty of overvaluing them, or enough to make you look guilty before the world in such a way as to disqualify you from the ministry, then the same is true of the other.


ME: Do you think you or the Scripure would have anything to say to a pastor who lives in a 60,000 sq ft house and owns 9 Rolls Royce's and drives them himself?


RCSJr:
No. All things being equal, depending on howGod has blessed him, no. Why?


ME: It seriously would not disturb you to find a pastor who spent $10 million on a house and $1 million on cars for his own personal benefit and comfort? This is not about whether God has blessed him with that kind of wealth. This is about how he chose to spend it - on his own pleasures instead of the immense good he could've done toward practicing pure and undefined religion. Has not such a man already received his reward in full?


RCSJr: Rho, it seriously would not, not if he earned the money, paid his tithe etc. I don't believe in adding law to God's Word. If God would not judge him, I aspire to not judge him as well. Feel free to jack it up to a 600,000 foot house that costs a billion, and it won't change a thing.


ME: James 4:17 - Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

------------


I would certainly advise the good brother that, when confronted by an obviously ridiculous example like my last one, it's not a good idea to double down.

Friday, October 18, 2013

In which I hasten to add

Frank Turk was (for the first time in a while) pretty close to 100% right in an article. Dr Michael Brown asks a question:
A question for all my cessationist friends: You constantly ask why I don't rebuke charismatic abuses (actually, I do), but I have not heard you rebuke the horrific writings of Martin Luther (against the Jews and others). Why not? What he wrote was far worse than a prosperity gospel.
First of all, "far worse" is a judgment call which I don't necessarily grant. Yes, it's horrible to say what Luther said when he was old and crotchety about the Jews. The Word of Faith heresy leads scads of people straight to Hell, more than there were Jews in the world at Luther's time.

Anyway, what is at issue for me is not so much that we don't hear very many denunciations coming from, say, the leadership of the Assemblies of God or Michael Brown's own organisation or Charisma Magazine of the many horrible things that Word of Faith-ers do and say. That's bad enough.

What concerns me most is that when they are directly asked about it, they still hem and haw. Look at the way Dr Brown acted a few days ago. Read my Twitter feed from recent days. I've asked probably a dozen charismatic Tweeters who were interacting on #strangefire feed to denounce Creflo Dollar and TD Jakes. Only one did so.


I'm happy to set myself apart from the actions of many, many charismatics in this arena.

Rhology, do you denounce the horrific writings of Martin Luther against the Jews and others?

Yes.

That was easy. Your turn.

Wednesday, October 16, 2013

Dr Michael Brown must've been really bored yesterday

Because he engaged in a lengthy Twitter exchange with yours truly. I appreciate the brother's time and his ministry in general in many respects. I have seen enough to doubt his objectivity about the matters we discussed and his discernment about all things charismatic and Word of Faith.

Read more here.

Monday, October 14, 2013

-ism and -ist

There are still people who don't know the difference, it seems. For example, someone who wrote in to the Abolish Human Abortion page today:

Dear Sirs:
I am Catholic. I march to save babies, spend time protesting at abortuaries, give my income to support crisis pregnancy centers and have led pro life groups in my Church. I pray daily for an end to the holocaust of abortion. A few days ago, your fb page stated you don't bash Catholic theology or traditions. Yet, Rhology states yesterday (here)  "I affirm 100% that the Roman Catholic is satanic and leads people to hell and has anathematized the gospel." These statements are inconsistent. Can you clarify for me what you mean by bashing the Catholic religion? I am perplexed how you can claim to not bash us but your chief blogger is affirming that we are 100 percent satanic. I'm not sure if I need to explain to you, but that creates division in the movement to save babies and as long as AHA supports statements like that, your reputation will continue to suffer and sadly the cause of saving babies will be harmed.  I would appreciate a clarification or explanation. Thanks for your time and consideration,


Hello,

How precisely are those statements inconsistent?
On the one hand we entirely deny that we bash Catholics.
On the other hand we entirely affirm that the Roman Catholic religion teaches a false gospel which leads people to Hell, as it incurs the anathema of Galatians 1:6-9 by adding works to faith as a pre-requisite for justification before God.

Are you incapable of distinguishing an -ism from an -ist? That is, a system of beliefs from an adherent to such a system?

Bashing Catholics might look like this: "Catholics are all uglyheads and poopypantses."
We are calling all those who believe in a false gospel or no gospel at all to repent and believe on Jesus for forgiveness of ALL of their sin and grace to live a life pleasing to Him in the power of the Spirit.

\\your chief blogger is affirming that we are 100 percent satanic.\\

No, I wasn't. I was 100% affirming that the RELIGION is satanic. Huge difference.
And the religion isn't 100% satanic. It's not even all that much wrong, quantity-wise. But that small quantity makes a huge difference!


\\that creates division in the movement to save babies\\

No, rather it exposes the division that already exists. The Roman Council of Trent created the division 480 years ago when it anathematised the true Gospel of grace.


\\your reputation will continue to suffer\\

Let our reputation be always and forever that we stood and relied on the Gospel and never compromised it.

And on a more personal note, my friend - you need to repent of following this false religion. It adds works to faith for justification, adds mediators in between a man and Jesus, and usurps for a mere man the titles of God the Father ("Holy Father"), God the Son ("alter Christus") and God the Holy Spirit ("Vicar of Christ") themselves. Repent and be saved and delivered from this madness. Flee to Christ. Repent and believe and bear fruit in keeping with repentance.

Peace to you,
Rhology

Thursday, September 12, 2013

A short open letter to K-Love radio

Posted on K-Love's Facebook wall and removed by the admins less than an hour later:

Dear K-Love,
My family and I have been longtime listeners, but the poor theology and messages that are downright anti-Gospel at times in the songs you play have driven me away. The final straw came the other day when my wife and children returned from running errands, and my kids started telling me about how a K-Love DJ had referred to Honi the Circle-Maker and the biblically-warranted need to "pray bold prayers".

My friends, nothing in the Word of God teaches that we ought to pray bold prayers (whatever that means). Does "give us this day our daily bread" sound "bold"? How about "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one"? "Bold"?

When you devolve to the point that your staff uncritically repeats unbiblical teachings they've picked up in their churches which are probably themselves quite corrupt theologically, it's time for the true follower of Jesus to move on, for the sake (if nothing else) of my childrens' impressionable minds. If your DJs insist on speaking on the air (though your station is supposed to play music), how about they just read Scripture aloud? Far better than to parrot men who flirt with heresy like Mark Batterson.

http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2011/11/the-circle-maker.html
http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/02/hide-your-kids-hide-your-wife.html

It's not just Circle-Maker, though. For a long time I have been amazed at your lack of theological acumen. You don't even seem to care that, say, Phillips Craig & Dean are unrepentant anti-Trinitarians who deny the Gospel of justification by faith alone. You don't care that Jaci Velasquez is in movies wearing nothing but bra and panties on camera. That Amy Grant is an adulteress. That "You're an overcomer" is one of the most wickedly deceptive songs I've ever heard in my entire life. Many more examples could be adduced.

May the Lord have mercy on you by bringing you to a knowledge of the truth, and may He forgive you for loving the status quo more than you love your listeners.

Wednesday, September 11, 2013

A hint as to Dick Dawk's motivations


Dawkins, 72, he said he was unable to condemn what he called "the mild pedophilia" he experienced at an English school when he was a child in the 1950s.

Referring to his early days at a boarding school in Salisbury, he recalled how one of the (unnamed) masters "pulled me on his knee and put his hand inside my shorts."

He said other children in his school peer group had been molested by the same teacher but concluded: "I don't think he did any of us lasting harm."

"I am very conscious that you can't condemn people of an earlier era by the standards of ours. Just as we don't look back at the 18th and 19th centuries and condemn people for racism in the same way as we would condemn a modern person for racism, I look back a few decades to my childhood and see things like caning, like mild pedophilia, and can't find it in me to condemn it by the same standards as I or anyone would today," he said.

He said the most notorious cases of pedophilia involve rape and even murder and should not be bracketed with what he called "just mild touching up." (Source)
Oh.

Friday, September 06, 2013

Wednesday, August 28, 2013

Two Trinitarian passages I just noticed

Act 1:1  In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach,
Act 1:2  until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen.
Act 1:3  He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.
Act 1:4  And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me;
Act 1:5  for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Act 1:6  So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"
Act 1:7  He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
Act 1:8  But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

1Co 12:3  Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit. 1Co 12:4  Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;
1Co 12:5  and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;
1Co 12:6  and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.
1Co 12:7  To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Co 12:8  For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,
1Co 12:9  to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Co 12:10  to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11  All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
1Co 12:12  For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.
1Co 12:13  For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Saturday, August 17, 2013

Rehoboam and compatibilism

1 Kings 12:

1Then Rehoboam went to Shechem, for all Israel had come to Shechem to make him king. 2Now when Jeroboam the son of Nebat heard of it, he was living in Egypt (for he was yet in Egypt, where he had fled from the presence of King Solomon). 3Then they sent and called him, and Jeroboam and all the assembly of Israel came and spoke to Rehoboam, saying, 4“Your father made our yoke hard; now therefore lighten the hard service of your father and his heavy yoke which he put on us, and we will serve you.” 5Then he said to them, “Depart for three days, then return to me.” So the people departed.
      6King Rehoboam consulted with the elders who had served his father Solomon while he was still alive, saying, “How do you counsel me to answer this people?” 7Then they spoke to him, saying, “If you will be a servant to this people today, and will serve them and grant them their petition, and speak good words to them, then they will be your servants forever.” 8But he forsook the counsel of the elders which they had given him, and consulted with the young men who grew up with him and served him. 9So he said to them, “What counsel do you give that we may answer this people who have spoken to me, saying, ‘Lighten the yoke which your father put on us’?” 10The young men who grew up with him spoke to him, saying, “Thus you shall say to this people who spoke to you, saying, ‘Your father made our yoke heavy, now you make it lighter for us!’ But you shall speak to them, ‘My little finger is thicker than my father’s loins! 11‘Whereas my father loaded you with a heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke; my father disciplined you with whips, but I will discipline you with scorpions.’”

      12Then Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam on the third day as the king had directed, saying, “Return to me on the third day.” 13The king answered the people harshly, for he forsook the advice of the elders which they had given him, 14and he spoke to them according to the advice of the young men, saying, “My father made your yoke heavy, but I will add to your yoke; my father disciplined you with whips, but I will discipline you with scorpions.” 15So the king did not listen to the people; for it was a turn of events from the LORD, that He might establish His word, which the LORD spoke through Ahijah the Shilonite to Jeroboam the son of Nebat.

      16When all Israel saw that the king did not listen to them, the people answered the king, saying,
            “What portion do we have in David?
            We have no inheritance in the son of Jesse;
            To your tents, O Israel!
            Now look after your own house, David!”
            So Israel departed to their tents.

17But as for the sons of Israel who lived in the cities of Judah, Rehoboam reigned over them. 18Then King Rehoboam sent Adoram, who was over the forced labor, and all Israel stoned him to death. And King Rehoboam made haste to mount his chariot to flee to Jerusalem. 19So Israel has been in rebellion against the house of David to this day.

      20It came about when all Israel heard that Jeroboam had returned, that they sent and called him to the assembly and made him king over all Israel. None but the tribe of Judah followed the house of David.

      21Now when Rehoboam had come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah and the tribe of Benjamin, 180,000 chosen men who were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel to restore the kingdom to Rehoboam the son of Solomon. 22But the word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying, 23“Speak to Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and to all the house of Judah and Benjamin and to the rest of the people, saying, 24‘Thus says the LORD, “You must not go up and fight against your relatives the sons of Israel; return every man to his house, for this thing has come from Me.”’” So they listened to the word of the LORD, and returned and went their way according to the word of the LORD.

So, did God choose to break the kingdom into two pieces, or did Rehoboam choose to speak harshly to the people, of his own free choice, and did the people choose Jeroboam as king of their own free choice?
What if the answer to all of those is Yes?

Friday, July 26, 2013

Evolution vs God and PZ Myers whining

I went ahead and bought and watched Evolution vs God last night. I'm happy to support Living Waters in that way.
Kudos to Ray Comfort, who does a great job narrating the work and running the interviews. Yes, of course they were edited. The video is 35 minutes long. But as someone trying to get better at street evangelism and to get over fears of talking to people I've never met before about serious and profound topics, having just walked up to them on the street, I admire Ray's cheek and manner. He's not intimidated at all, or if he is, he doesn't show it.

I assumed PZ Myers, who makes an extended appearance in the film, would whine that he was taken out of context after the editing of the film was done. Of course he would, because he looked like a self-deceived snake oil salesman in the film (and hey, appearances don't always deceive).

Excerpt
Comfort: "Could you give me one piece of observable evidence for Darwinian evolution?"
Myers: "OK, I would point to, as one great example is, look at the genetics of the stickleback."
Comfort: "What's that?"
Myers: "Uh, so stickleback fish are a very interesting colleciton of species that were recently isolated after the end of the Ice Age."
Comfort: "What do they become?"
Myers: "They're various species of stickleback."
Comfort: "They stayed as fish."
Myers: "Well, of course...they're distinctly different fish."
...
Myers: "Human beings are still fish."
Comfort: "Humans are fish?"
Myers: "Yes, of course they are."
...
Myers: "For instance I would say look at Lenski's experiments with bacteria, then."
Comfort: "So what do the bacteria become?"
Myers: "The bacteria are still bacteria, of course."
...
Comfort: "To summarise, the observable evidence that you give me for Darwinian evolution is bacteria becoming bacteria."
Myers: "No, it is bacteria acquiring new metabolic capabilities."


If Ray really took PZ Myers out of context in such a way as to misrepresent what Myers had to say (ie, that the evidence he'd adduce to indicate TENSTE(p)NSBMGDaGF occurred is that fish evolved into fish), why is it that I've asked the same question of many other neo-Darwinians over the years and been given the following answers?
-finches evolved into finches
-mosquitoes evolved into mosquitoes
-bacteria evolved into bacteria (which Myers also offered in the film, as seen above)
-salamanders evolved into salamanders
-fruitflies evolved into really jacked-up fruitflies
-moths evolved into moths

"Fish evolved into fish" or "bacteria evolved into bacteria" is entirely consistent with those other answers I've been given.

Anyway, the movie is an enjoyable watch, picking up where Genius and 180 left off. My favorite part was the montage of long dumbfounded response-free pauses when Ray asks a variety of interlocutors the question, "Can you think of any observable evidence of Darwinian evolution where there's a change of kind?" It evokes Richard Dawkins. Go support Living Waters by purchasing the mp4 download, if you can.

Friday, July 19, 2013

Pastors

It has been said that no pastor in America could possibly endorse the Church Repent project.

Even if no pastor endorsed it, that would make no difference as to the need or justification for the project, absent a biblical argument justifying opposition to it (which the critics have been unsuccessful in providing). However, I just wanted to say that there are two pastors in America that explicitly have endorsed it. Just sayin'. The Spirit of God is at work.

(Edit: I didn't discover until later that Bob Enyart teaches at least one heretical doctrine (Open Theism) and is heterodox in other areas. Oops. But there are now more than him anyway.)

Monday, July 08, 2013

A Biblical Blueprint for Church Exhortation

You get to see my pretty face move and talk if you click on this video. And there was much rejoicing.

Tuesday, July 02, 2013

"Where is the church?"

There are those who oppose the ChurchRepent project, such as those men behind "Babies Are Murdered Here". In the first part of the trailer, you can see one of them preaching "I'm talking about the church! Where  is the church?" I guess he's  just like "Where is the church? What? They don't want to do anything? OK, never mind!"

We actually want to love the churches of America, however, and plead with them to repent if they are in sin. Turns out that they are, by and large. So, the loving thing to do would be to go to them and show them enough love to try to turn them to holiness, to the graces and blessings of Jesus Christ. If they resist at first, we're still willing to try to help.  The men of BAMH and those who agree with them want, I guess, to retreat and just do their own thing at that point, and chuck mud at those more loving than they.

I posted this video from the admin account at the Abolish Human Abortion FB page and a pastor started to engage on it. The discussion that followed is instructive, so I reproduce it here.


  • Jeremy Lundmark If I may, and I don't have to, Jon Speed is a pastor... and has the authority to call upon his church to move in this area and has every right (biblically) to point to the rest of the church's apathy to bring his church under conviction in this area.AHA has no such authority. If AHA members want to connect to local assemblies, become members, and call their fellow brothers and sisters to repentance in that local assembly... fine... but you have no authority over the local church.

    If the AHA can provide Scripture that demonstrates that the church and it's leadership should be submitted to an organization called "AHA" then by all means we'll submit. Until then, I believe the Scriptures still say that believers are to be under the authority of a local assembly and its leadership. For better for worse, that's what Christ has ordained... not the "AHA" or any other "parachurch" organization.
  • Abolish Human Abortion It is not at all about authority or submitting. It is about following the two greatest commandments. Love God, love neighbor. Are we not allowed to proclaim the message of Christ himself to anyone and everyone?
  • Rho Logy \\has the authority to call upon his church\\

    Biblically speaking, Pastor =/= priest. Pastors have authority insofar as they accurately teach the Word of God. He has authority to call his church to obey Jesus. If he's wrong, his authority is irrelevan
    t 'cause he doesn't have any.

    \\AHA has no such authority\\

    http://churchrepent.com/objection-4

    \\ If AHA members want to connect to local assemblies, become members, and call their fellow brothers and sisters to repentance in that local assembly... fine... but you have no authority over the local church. \\

    You are why we created www.churchrepent.com I pray you'll read and be edified. I am being 100% sincere.

    \\If the AHA can provide Scripture that demonstrates that the church and it's leadership should be submitted to an organization called "AHA"\\

    You've got us all wrong. Read our website.

    \\ I believe the Scriptures still say that believers are to be under the authority of a local assembly and its leadership. \\

    We've never denied that.

    \\For better for worse, that's what Christ has ordained... not the "AHA" or any other "parachurch" organization.\\

    http://churchrepent.com/objection-7



    16 hours ago · Like · 4 ·
  • Zandra Abolitionist Westchurch I'll add that certain people are more concerned about their "image" than doing God's work. I'll be happy to spell it out, if need be.
  • Christina Harrhof Our clinic escorts have mentioned in a post that they are aware of at least one of these pages. It sure would be nice if all disagreements could be taken privately, instead of battled out in front of unbelievers. Just a thought.
  • Casie Kyle Death escorts opinions shouldn't matter. They participate in murder after all. Just my opinion.
  • Christina Harrhof Yes, Casie Kyle, I don't have a high view of the escort's opinions either; however, I was just using them as an example of all the unbelievers who are watching these pages -- some of whom we are personally evangelizing. I'm not sure if it reflects well on believers as a whole to have so many public squabbles -- although I agree with some of the concerns presented and think it is good and right to discuss them privately.
  • Jeremy Lundmark "Are we not allowed to proclaim the message of Christ himself to anyone and everyone?"

    You can... but in order to be consistent (ie Biblical) you're supposed to submitted to a local assembly that has an authority structure of some kind. If your in an
    organization that is telling your church what to do... you're not submitting to the authority that the Scriptures call you to submit to (we call that a catch-22)

    @Rho- I may have you all wrong... but AHA is all wrong to grab a 5 second clip, and say a man is on board with something, when in fact he has explicitly stated numerous times... that he is not. That's lying first, undermining a brother, second, and making a mockery of an established Church's leader who, in fact, does what you guys do, third. So, whatever AHA is doing, what it has done here is deplorable and self defeating.

    You're correct that I don't know much about AHA, in fact I've only encountered it in conjunction with Babies are Murdered here. The reason I don't align with either, yet, is because of this very issue. If there is no respect at all for church authority, I'll have nothing to do with it. That goes for Bible Colleges, Missions agencies, and the like.

    All of these organizations are finished if they detach themselves from the local assembly, or worse, tell themselves they have authority over the local church. As a pastor of a local church myself, it took me a long time to learn that Christ wants to accomplish his purposes through his church... not through parachurch organizations. Insofar as AHA is connected to local assemblies it will thrive... if it detaches... it may accomplish a purpose... maybe even a good purpose... but it won't be God's purpose.

    I would prefer to see AHA and BAMH close down, and be run from a local assembly. Not sure why either of these organizations exist separate from the local church. Not my place to judge... I ran a parachurch organization for 3 years and closed it down for this very reason. God will get his glory, through his church... how that plays out... We'll watch and see.
  • Luis Fernando Zapata God can used anything or any one to rebuke his church.Numbers 22:28 And Jehovah opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
  • Abolish Human Abortion Jeremy Lundmark, you don't understand us enough to be a critic of us.

    We have stated a million times that all we want to do is spread an ideology of abolition and that each local abolitionist society is to be autonomous from AHA (only unified in ideol
    ogy) and under the authority of their local leaders who are active members of local bodies with pastors, evangelists, teachers, preachers, etc etc etc.

    AHA also has stated many times that we should not have to exist and that our primary interest is to see the abolitionist movement led by local church bodies and pastors. Please read the website, church repent.com
  • Casie Kyle If they are not against us, they are for us. Paraphrase of what Jesus said to the apostles about another guy.
  • Abolish Human Abortion // I would prefer to see AHA...close down.//

    Wow us too! I think it was said several times at our conference this weekend. We want to see the Church (the Bride of Christ, the invisible Church which you are conflating as the visible local institutions
    we call churches) step up and lead the charge to abolish human abortion. They are not doing so and seem to be content with not doing so. Hence why we stood sat for long hours in hard pews the last couple days and all have sunburns today from being out pleading with them to do so. Right on! We hope the church will do this and we are pledging to help them.
  • Jeremy Lundmark //I think it was said several times at our conference this weekend. We want to see the Church step up and lead the charge to abolish human abortion.//

    So... close it. If that's what you guys want... file for dissolution.

    //We have stated a million ti
    mes that all we want to do is spread an ideology of abolition//

    That's your mission, not the mission of the church. We're called to make disciples of Christ... not abolitionists.

    //AHA also has stated many times that we should not have to exist and that our primary interest is to see the abolitionist movement led by local church bodies and pastors... Right on! We hope the church will do this and we are pledging to help them.//

    O.k. If any of that is true... dissolve AHA. It's a simple form of dissolution you file to the state. Call on those who are a part of your organization/ministry to go and do what their doing in and through their local churches.

    What boggles my mind about groups like yours (which I've been a part of before just with different causes) is that you all consolidate together to lament the failures of the local church... which you're supposed to be active in and a part of. If the local church is failing on this front... your to blame because you're a part of it.

    //the invisible Church which you are conflating as the visible local institutions we call churches//

    The Bible speaks of no such thing as the "invisible" church. An invisible church is a non-existent church. Every believer is visible, and is expected by Scripture to be under the authority, or a part of the authority, of a visible local assembly.
  • Jeremy Lundmark One final note...

    None of this justifies AHA's initial post here on an individual brother and pastor of a local assembly. I'm not sure on what grounds AHA (in it's seemingly harmless desire to create abolitionists and respect the authority of the chur
    ch) it misrepresents and mocks a fellow brother and a pastor.

    I don't need to know much about the organization to know, that if it says it respects leaders, and then disrespects one... that it's playing games.
  • Jeremy Lundmark @Luis... just saw your comment. God can do anything... that doesn't mean he's doing everything you think he is.
  • Jeremy Lundmark Out of Curiosity... how many churches would you guys say are represented under the AHA banner? Why don't all of those churches come together and call on the rest of the church to take a stand on the abortion issue. At least then the authority structure would be Biblical.

    If I did everything every parachurch organization wanted me to do... I'd never have time to do what God has called me to do.
  • Abolish Human Abortion Jeremy Lundmark, we don't see loving our neighbors as something that a para-ministry is supposed to do and that only some church bodies do.

    You really need to read up on what it is that we actually think, say, and do. Take the plank out of your eye, read our website, and then, if you see any specks, we will gladly let you remove them.
  • Luis Fernando Zapata Most of the churches forgot that the body of chirst is a body composed with many members not 2 or three there is apostles prophets evangelist pastor and teachers to building the church, and one gift that men can't control is the gift of prophecy, when the others ministries got loss them God bring for this, don't forget what HE SAID MY THOUGH ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHS.
  • Rho Logy Jeremy Lundmark

    Hi Jeremy,

    First of all, I want to say that I am glad to see you thinking about all this stuff. You are the kind of guy whom God will use to abolish human abortion. You are a pastor. Get your church involved in getting other churches involved, is my encouragement. I do have a few responses to some comments you've made, though.

    \\If that's what you guys want... file for dissolution.\\

    We wish we could. Not yet, though - there is far too much apathy in the American church to do that. If churches are not rising up to do the work, individual believers must do so. It's far better than leaving the work undone just b/c you don't think that we have a "biblical authority structure".
    Thing is, you can't demonstrate that the authority structure you think is biblical is actually biblical. I challenge you to do so. Show us all where the Scripture says:
    1) "laymen" can't rebuke pastors when they are in sin
    2) one has to be ordained by one's elders to call out sin in others when it is clearly observed.
    Good luck!

    \\We're called to make disciples of Christ... not abolitionists.\\

    You're creating a dichotomy where none exists. It's probably b/c you don't actually understand our ideology. i encourage you to do some more reading.
    http://blog.abolishhumanabortion.com/2013/05/a-response-to-babies-are-murdered-here.html
    http://blog.abolishhumanabortion.com/search/label/Michael%20Coughlin
    http://blog.abolishhumanabortion.com/search/label/Ed%20Dingess

    \\ in and through their local churches.\\

    We *are* doing that. And we are *also* calling on other local churches to repent of their apathy and lead the way so that AHA can dissolve.

    \\ groups like yours (which I've been a part of before just with different causes)\\

    No disrespect intended, but you show little indication you understand our ideology, so I don't know that you are in a position to say that you've been in groups like us before.

    \\lament the failures of the local church... which you're supposed to be active in and a part of\\

    1) We're doing more than lamenting those failures. We're doing something about them.
    2) We ARE active in local churches.

    \\ If the local church is failing on this front... your to blame because you're a part of it. \\

    And we are repenting of that and trying to bear fruit in keeping with repentance. You're throwing dirt on our fire when you should be rising up yourself and examining yourself for apathy.
    Notice that I'm not accusing you, but you are accusing us. I am inviting you to examine yourself. You're wrongly pretending you've already examined us a lot.

    \\The Bible speaks of no such thing as the "invisible" church. \\

    It teaches the concept. Just like the Bible speaks of no such thing as the "visible" church. The words "visible church" do not appear in the Bible.
    The *concept* is taught.
    What church was Martin Luther a part of in 1520?

    \\ An invisible church is a non-existent church.\\

    This would seem to be an attempt at a pithy one-liner, but it misses the point. The invisible church is all the redeemed of Jesus.

    \\Every believer is visible\\

    You mean you see like images of crosses on the foreheads of believers, or halos or something? What do you mean?

    \\is expected by Scripture to be under the authority, or a part of the authority, of a visible local assembly.\\

    Yes, of course. We don't disagree. We do want to qualify the terminology, however. "Authority" in this case doesn't mean that the pastor is above examination by God's Word, nor infallible. Pastors have no authority unless they teach the Word of God. So saying "authority" is really a buzzword in modern Reformedigelicalism, and it needs to be much better understood biblically. Right now it's largely understood in the context of human tradition.

    \\None of this justifies AHA's initial post here on an individual brother and pastor of a local assembly\\

    You think he's a brother. We have our doubts, given his behavior.
    You also seem to think that it's better to criticise someone who has called out sinful behavior in a professing brother. You should check that in the SCripture again. It's loving to try to restore a sinning brother to the truth, to follow Jesus without sin.
    You, by coddling him and pretending his sin doesn't exist, are actually the one treating him in an unloving way. He needs to repent.

    \\ it misrepresents and mocks a fellow brother and a pastor.\\

    How precisely did we misrep or mock him? We're just quoting him.

    \\how many churches would you guys say are represented under the AHA banner? \\

    I don't know what "the AHA banner" means.

    \\Why don't all of those churches come together and call on the rest of the church to take a stand on the abortion issue.\\

    We would love it if yours would be the first. And I'm being 100% sincere. Until that happens, our role is necessary.

    \\At least then the authority structure would be Biblical.\\

    Flesh this out with Scripture. What are you talking about? Where does the Scripture talk about individual local churches joining together and what the authority structure in that case looks like and what it's supposed to look like?

    \\If I did everything every parachurch organization wanted me to do... I'd never have time to do what God has called me to do.\\

    Do what the BIble says, then, and forget "parachurch orgs".
    http://churchrepent.com/child-sacrifice/

    Don't hide behind "authority" like a Pope.