Friday, September 09, 2011

A hater of the cross

One "ISLAMICO" came into the #prosapologian chat channel the other day, which is the IRC channel sponsored by James White's Alpha and Omega Ministries.
He was asking a bunch of questions but didn't do too well at answering ours. For example, when asked how he knew he was following the correct branch of Islam and not Shi'a Islam, he responded that he knew via "commen sense".
Not the most impressive reply, as should be obvious.
Here's an excerpt right before he was kickbanned.
Raz_Lappie and ChrisSBTS are bloggers from, by the way. TurretinFan is the one and only. "drOakly" refers to James White's IRC nick.

<Raz_Lappie>So, anyway
<ISLAMICO>r u guys evangleicals?
<ChrisSBTS>God did not have a birthday on December 25. Did Muhammed cut the moon in half?
<Raz_Lappie>Why does it matter if the answer "works for you"?
<Raz_Lappie>Go ahead, Chris.
<ChrisSBTS>No, go on.
<ChrisSBTS>I'm done and need to leave anyway.
<Rhology>islamico CHris answered you, now you answer
<Rhology>that's how it works
<ISLAMICO>Where is drOakly
<Raz_Lappie>So, ISLAMICO - Why does it matter if the answer "works for you"?
<Raz_Lappie>I'm talking to you now.
-->|TurretinFan ( has joined #apologetics
<Raz_Lappie>I answered a good dozen of your questions :)
<ISLAMICO>raz becouse otherwise if the answers dont work it means you all lie and bs
<Raz_Lappie>"Works" according to whom?
<McFormtist>I don't believe that, ISLAMICO. Therefore you lie.
<Raz_Lappie>and that's an interesting accusation, as I consider Allah the best of deceivers.
<Raz_Lappie>(As He himself claims)
<ISLAMICO>And it means if your answers are all bs then you are all a bunch of scamers and liars who should be out of business
<Raz_Lappie>Why shouldn't you conisder me to be taking after Allah?
<Raz_Lappie>Who gets to say they are "lies"?
<ISLAMICO>Is Allah god?
<Raz_Lappie>You claim he is.
<Raz_Lappie>I don't.
<Raz_Lappie>Yet, Allah claims he is the best of deceivers
<ISLAMICO>Arabic bible says Allah???????????
<Raz_Lappie>So I'm not sure why you consider deceit to be a bad thing.
<Raz_Lappie>Do you usually use 8 exclamation points?
<ISLAMICO>where does it say deciver?????
<ISLAMICO>raz u lie
<ISLAMICO>raz lies big time
<Raz_Lappie>How do you know?
<ISLAMICO>stop lying
<ISLAMICO>becouse u have no proof
<ISLAMICO>thats why
<BKing>I would believe you, ISLAMICO, but you are a deceiver
<Raz_Lappie>~yes sur 3:54
<ISLAMICO>ur an evangelical liar
<TurretinFan>~yus sur 3:54
<Gutenberg^>Surah 3:54 And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah. (YUS)
<Raz_Lappie>what is the word for "plotter", there?
<ISLAMICO>planners or decivers lol
<ISLAMICO>yes u lie
<Raz_Lappie>Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena
<ISLAMICO>u change words
<Raz_Lappie>You just said it means "deceiver"
<ISLAMICO>lying son of a bitch
<Raz_Lappie>How did I change it?
<TurretinFan>I think ISLAMICO laughs because he doesn't know Arabic.
=-=ISLAMICO was booted from #apologetics by Raz_Lappie (language.)
<ChrisSBTS>Good grief.
<ChrisSBTS>Exactly like a New Atheist.
<Raz_Lappie>Way to take the moral high ground.
<Bahama>allah would be proud

Anyway, I had invited ISLAMICO to email me before he turned sour when he demanded that he do more than simply ask questions but answer a few himself.
He did email me later. Here's how that went down.

You are all a bunch of liars. Lying on God is bad enough and lying on Islam is a crime.

Here is what the verse says.

And they (disbelievers) plotted (to kill Jesus) and Allah planned too. And Allah is the best of the planners.

Where on god green earth have you seen the word diciver there?

But you run to your evangelical Arab Christians who do speak Arabic and who are able to fool you and convince you that the words mean something else. You behave as if we are in the age of no language dictionaries or tools to check out the facts for ones own self.

Its's simple. You are following your leaders who read the bible for you and tell you what to believe and when it comes to Islam you are listening to Arab Christians who lie to you counting on your own ignorance. They know that evangelicals follow blindly and that is why you are called sheeple. 


Nah, we're not liars.
Maybe you think we're wrong, but we are not liars.

Here's the aya:

Sahih International
And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.
Muhsin Khan
And they (disbelievers) plotted [to kill 'Iesa (Jesus) ], and Allah planned too. And Allah is the Best of the planners.

Here is my question: Is the word for planners/planned the same between when the disbelievers planned and Allah planned?

And don't be inconsistently foolish, Islamico. When you say "where do you see 'deceivers' there?" you are also relying on English translation. Be consistent.
It depends on how the word is translated.

Before you criticise or insult me again, please answer the question instead. I am willing to dialogue with and debate with you as long as you also do your best to answer questions that I ask you, fairly.  
If you choose to insult me, that's your call. but as long as you answer questions, you are free to ask me questions too.


We cant have a dialogue if you are going to cite from islamophobic gangsters such of those from ABN Crime network, or Sam Shamooun. Those islamophobes are not experts in anything they are just out there with an Islamophobic agenda financed by Arab Christians and other evangelical organizations. This is why you cannot trust a Muslim because you are brainwashed from their anti Islam sites. Your level of trust in them is far too high for you to verify their information for your self. You end up giving Muslim a cheesy web link with misleading information. You don't speak Arabic, you didn't learn Islam from Muslims, you don't have Muslim friends and all you know about Islam is what evangelicals with an agenda on Islam spoon feed you. This actually in Islam is very dangerous to follow blindly those who claim to have knowledge but don't. If you end up following them they will lead you to hell fire.

Now you try again and let me know what you found about the verse you are interested in. Go do your homework and cite for me good scholars and good people who have no agenda. 



With an email like "crosshater", it would be easy for me to engage in the genetic fallacy as you have done here, but I won't. I will take your points seriously and we will discuss.

You called ABNSat and Shamoun "gangsters". In American/Canadian English, this usually means that they have some connection to organised crime or are criminals themselves. Please:
1) provide some evidence that they are criminals or have connections to organised crime
2) explain that you used the wrong word because English is not your 1st language (I don't know if it is or not, but my guess is that English is not your 1st language; I could be wrong)
3) withdraw the pejorative label.

Are you familiar with the genetic fallacy? It is what you have just done by ignoring the points that Shamoun made because you have a negative opinion of him, or that he is a "gangster" or something.

What precisely about the article is misleading and incorrect? Be specific, give evidence and logical argumentation to substantiate what you are saying. 

You are acting like a bigot, and I hope you will learn not to do this. You assume that just b/c I am a Christian American that I learned Islam from evangelicals. This is incorrect. I have read Muslim books on Muhammad and I read the entire Qur'an, I have been to the local masjid over 15 times, I have met numerous times with the teacher of the other local masjid for study, and I am in fact going tonight for maghrib and a lesson after.
I know what Islam teaches, and I have learned it firsthand. Incidentally, most of what many evangelicals have taught about Islam, that I've heard anyway, has proven to be correct. Don't be a bigot - study and let me know where the errors are.
And I do have Muslim friends. Again you demonstrate your bigotry. You don't know anything about me. I would like to ask you to stop treating me like you know anything about me except what I have told you or what you have read on my blog, for that is the only access you have to information about me. In return I will do my best not to assume anything about you.

You also demonstrate you're a bit of a naive fool in your request to find information written by someone who "has no agenda". EVERYONE has agendas. 
Try again. Actually read it this time and let me know the specific errors it contains.


I am not interested in refuting any information from the ABN crime syndicate. So find someone else to play with. 

Apparently he forgot who sought out whom.
Anyway, just another day in the life of a blind false religionist. I truly pity him and those like him.


Turretinfan said...


Mike Westfall said...

Sounds like fun. Which irc server are y'all on?

Rhology said...


I use Firefox's Chatzilla plugin.
/join #prosapologian