Rhology, with all due respect:
They are cheap, and they are much more efficient (and reliable) than I am.
However, rather than define words, let's try a thought experiment and see if this gets through to you. Imagine there is a tribe of American Indians, ~1000 A.D. Your god hasn't visited them for whatever reason (please don't bother trying to provide me with one.) One tribesman (let's call him Chip on Shoulder) decides that he is entitled to attack his fellow tribesman brutally every time someone gives him "a look." There are already 3 tribesman permanently wounded. These indians are harmed, and suffer negative undeserved consequences. They are harmed because they can no longer move well. This = bad because they can't hunt, and their ability to feed their families is impaired. (I can't believe I just wrote those sentences) The tribe meets, and based on their group instincts of self preservation, decide that these violent outbursts cannot be tolerated. This behavior would eventually destroy the tribe. Also, they recognize that this type of lopsided retaliation is ALWAYS wrong, and create a law. What you should find amazing (and what I don't) is that they managed to figure all of this out without Jesus having to appear to them at all.
My response will be posted after it is moderated:
Wow, you proposed that I buy a dictionary.
Let me try to explain again.
My contention is that atheism lacks an objective standard by which to measure good and bad, beyond the personal subjective "I like it" and "I don't like it".
If I'm right, you have no justification to make any more far-reaching statement than "I don't like it when children are raped". You can't say it's "bad" or "wrong" - you need to define how you know what is bad or wrong. You didn't say merely "I don't like it", so you're expressing a value judgment that refers to sthg outside of yourself. I want to know how you know what that is.
Saying "Well, duh!" isn't an answer.
Saying "Harm is BY DEFINITION bad" isn't an answer, unless you can tell me why.
So you're begging the question all over the place. Tell me how you know these things are bad, are negative, are harmful.
They are harmed because they can no longer move well.
So? What is your argument for the statement "Not being able to move well is harmful".
This = bad because they can't hunt, and their ability to feed their families is impaired
What is your argument for the statement "Being able to feed their families is good"?
This behavior would eventually destroy the tribe.
What is your argument that destroying the tribe is bad?
*I* have an answer b/c my worldview provides an objective basis for morality. Yours doesn't, and your consistent question-begging is only reinforcing that conclusion.
What you should find amazing (and what I don't) is that they managed to figure all of this out without Jesus having to appear to them at all.
My worldview provides for recognition of the fact that
1) God has placed innate knowledge of right and wrong within every person
2) God provides different amounts of light and revelation to different people groups
3) People usually do act morally in many areas.
You must have forgotten that I already said:
And to reiterate my constant refrain for those of you just joining us - my argument is not that atheism precludes the possibility of having a moral system nor that atheists are all immoral.
I look fwd to more answers and less question-begging assertions.