Monday, March 13, 2017

Interactions With Fred Butler, ShepCon Repentance

All too predictably, Grace To You employee Fred Butler became very upset when abolitionists suggested out loud that the vast majority of pastors in the United States probably need to repent of abortion apathy on some level, and did so in person just outside the property of his boss' church buildings during the famous Shepherds' Conference 2017. That's the same church whose buildings thousands attend for Sunday service and which is located less than 10 miles from no less than three abortion facilities with empty sidewalks all 'round them all week long, week after week.

Let's give credit where due - at least Fred accepted one of the abolitionist pamphlets instead of flatly rejecting them like the majority of church people do. At least he put up the initial impression of wanting to be a Berean. Unfortunately for him (and everyone), the Bereans are praised in Acts 17 not only because they examined the Scriptures but also because they came to correct conclusions regarding the Scriptures they were reading and the oral message the Apostle Paul and his team were delivering. Fred at least gives it a shot but ultimately fails in his alleged quest for biblical accuracy. With respect to the contents of the pamphlet, see the review here and an abolitionist reply here.

In light of the fact that I think it is 51% probable that my comments on Fred's relevant note will be deleted, I reproduce the conversation here in which Fred and others discuss their badly skewed and groundless opinions about what AHA is and who abolitionists are. Thankfully, Pulpit & Pen's supposed chief editor (the real chief editor is Jordan Hall), Jeff Maples, stopped by to demonstrate that he, like Jordan, never understood AHA either despite his repeated claims to have been an abolitionist. It's always gratifying when "abolitionists" expose themselves as pro-lifers, ecclesiolaters, and willing deceivers in public so as to reduce the likelihood they deceive anyone else.





Alan Maricle \\Standing outside of churches berating the members that they are not doing enough against abortion will only continue to mute your message. \\

Thank God literally nobody is doing that.

Fred Butler AHA did it this past Sunday at my church. Told people that they were there to confront apathy and whatnot. That's berating.
Fred Butler Because you know, the ShepCon men were hirelings, right?
Alan Maricle Some are, sure. Which is what I said originally.
Fred Butler None were, you falsely accused the brethren.
Rick Cowan I knew nothing of AHA before attending ShepCon. I can tell you as an objective observer, their tactics made me assume they were a fringe group, and possibly a cult. If they are neither of these things, they need to seriously reconsider their tactics.
Alan Maricle Did you talk to any of them?
Rick Cowan I stood and listened. I walked away when I saw multiple GoPros. In my experience, the only reason people start conversations while brandishing GoPros is so that they can have material with which to make themselves YouTube stars.
Alan Maricle Perhaps you need some more varied experiences.
Fred Butler How about the guy shouting through the fence to the men trying to have lunch? He was a varied experience.
Alan Maricle Most of the time, that's called "preaching", but h8rs gonna h8, Fred.
Fred Butler - that's called "preaching", but h8rs gonna h8, Fred.-

Preaching is when you actually use a Bible and proclaim a biblically based message. Citing abortion stats and telling the pastors they are apathetic needing to repent and embrace AHA is not.
Shaun Marksbury Says "literally nobody is doing that." Says "k" to literal examples.
Alan Maricle Nobody gave any examples. Just biased vague memories they claim to have.
Alan Maricle Btw, here is what actual evidence looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=fmOjoeqvUdw
It's also kinda what hirelings look like.


Rhology shared a video
youtube.com
Tim Brown So, asking "hirelings" to treat you as "brothers"?

Revealing. An admission?

#cognitivedissonance
Shaun Marksbury Yep. I'd call that actual evidence.
Fred Butler No one is under obligation to treat any AHA advocate at a brother. That's the same whiny attitude all cultist give the orthodox body of believers.
Tim Brown Yup. Tear you down then whine about you not being "inclusive".
Joseph Johnsen That was pathetic. Alan, you should be ashamed of yourself
Darren G Chandler This was something you offer in DEFENSE of your point?
Joseph Johnsen And who says you're brothers? Who says those in that video you posted Alan are brothers? Brothers do not protest biblical churches and biblical conferences. Brothers do not harass other brothers on the street outside a biblical conference. And yes it is a protest and you and them will answer to God for your discord sowing.
If you're brothers you will repent of it.

You guys are your own worst enemy.
Jeff Maples And brothers don't say that the majority of pastors are totally lost because they don't do enough about abortion.
Alan Maricle Nobody said majority. Or enough.

How are you not so ashamed at how poorly you argue against abolition?
Brandon Hines How does Jeff "poorly argue against abortion?"
Joseph Johnsen How are you not ashamed of sowing discord among the brethren?

Yeah because your arguement of "k" is a great defense of your position.
Shaun Marksbury "Literally nobody"
Jeff Maples And if they can't make a physical trip to your church, they'll just church repent you on Sunday mornings over Facebook.
Tim Brown I guess Tyler Rogers is a "nobody".

k.
Tim Brown ...also, he claims that no abolitionist has ever put the gospel second to abortion...

well, I guess you can believe that until you see that 99.99% of their shirts and signage never mention the gospel...

K. Here ya go...Ya...Gospel Saturated...not so much.

https://images.search.yahoo.com/.../search;_ylt...
Fred Butler -And brothers don't say that the majority of pastors are totally lost because they don't do enough about abortion.-

Scott Klussendorf does a lot to inform, educate about abortion. Preaches some powerful stuff against it. Oddly, a number of AHA people despise the guy.
Glenn Kelley Tim Brown YES THEY HAVE - I had one here in Ohio do that multiple times. While street preaching they told me I was pathetic because I was apathetic to the cause of ending human suffering in the womb. I asked if preaching the Gospel is apathy and was told yes. I should concentrate on ending abortion and then saving the soul of the mother and father.

shake my head ...
Alan Maricle No idea who Tyler is.
Alan Maricle Nobody despises Klusendorf. Fred isn't even honest or informed enough to properly represent the substance of the disagreements with his material.
Jeff Maples He's the director of the Georgetown KY AHA society.
Fred Butler -Fred isn't even honest or informed enough to properly represent the substance of the disagreements with his material.-

You need to get out more and talk with your buddies.
Alan Maricle So he's one abolitionist, whom I've never heard of.
Alan Maricle Fred how would that help?
Fred Butler - He's the director of the Georgetown KY AHA society.-

But Jeff, how can he be a director of a non organized group?
Fred Butler - Fred how would that help?-

You would be informed as to what a number of your AHA pals think about Scott Klussendorf and his feckless compromised pro-life ideas. Seriously. When you guys have a non-organized non-conference, ask around randomly.
Alan Maricle \\how can he be a director of a non organized group?\\

You literally don't listen. At all. That is such a pathetic thing to say.

\\You would be informed as to what a number of your AHA pals think about Scott Klussendorf and his feckless compromised pro-life ideas.\\

You said they "despise" him. I challenge you to find me even one single person who DESPISES him.
You won't be able to. Retract your ridiculous statement.
Alan Maricle \When you guys have a non-organized non-conference\\

Who has ever claimed that abolitionist conferences are not organised?
I cannot believe how dumb the things you are writing are.
Alan Maricle About this Tyler Rogers fellow, I think he was wrong to state some certain quantity.
But far more wrong is how y'all are WAY more bent out of shape about what this one guy said in some sub-thread somewhere than you are about the 3500 babies who died today. You care more about your reputations and the preservation of your precious little kingdoms than about loving your neighbor. It's terribly sad. Repent of it.
Tim Brown Ok, so now it's an organized non-organization.

Check.

Or, as you would say, "k".
Alan Maricle \\it's an organized non-organization. \\

"IT"
What is "IT"?
Alan Maricle You cannot be serious.
Tim Brown "You cannot be serious"

Thanks for replying to yourself for me, Alan.
Darren G Chandler It is rather futile to argue "nobody says that! I've never heard of these people!" To someone who DOES know of these people and has heard them say these things over and over.
Alan Maricle Btw since this came up, here is what real preaching actually is.
http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/.../the-nature-of-preaching...


Below you can find the results of an exhaustive concordance search through the New Testament for words related to preaching and proclaiming,...
rhoblogy.blogspot.com
Greg Taylor Alan Maricle you wrote that it was a huge mission field. The mission field is those who need the gospel, not the church. You completely missed the point of people's objections. It was worse than badly worded. It was slanderously worded.

You should repent of your false accusations. By not being there and making such huge false allegations, you caused many people's motives to be colored as tainted. You should stop falsely accusing the brethren and causing problems, even for others who may not have thought about Shepherd's Conference as you did.
Greg Taylor Alan Maricle it was claimed by one of the people actually there as part of AHA, that the part of going on Sunday was not a planned part of the organized conference. You should again stop slandering people's wording about what you obviously know nothing about.

You misrepesented in yoiur tweet as though you were a part of the 'event', then criticize perfectly correct wording according to someone who was there as idiotic things that he is writing.....pot kettle, kettle pot. You write something completely false about the 'event' at Shepherd's Conference, taint many people's viewpoint of it and then have the audacity to accuse someone else of writing ridiculous statements...oh the irony.
Greg Taylor And also multitudes of times it has been claimed that AHA is not an organization. You prove the point, for deeming to speak for them, when several of them confronted you and told you that they didn't agree with what you wrote as representing what the event was about.
Alan Maricle \\The mission field is those who need the gospel, not the church\\

The astute reader of the New Testament will note that verses exist like Acts 20:32 that mention wolves arising from the ranks of older mature men who oversee that tear up the flocks of God, or 1 John 2 where people eventually go out from among us, or Jude that mentions those still professing to know Christ but who are false.
The mission field is those who *remain unconverted*.

\\ You completely missed the point of people's objections\\

No, *you* and everyone else here have missed the point of abolitionist exhortations. I know this b/c nobody has actually addressed my own status, which was the only one of its kind of which I am aware, let alone the reasons that most abolitionists gave for approaching ShepCon. When you can't even correctly re-state your opponent's position, your own critique carries zero weight.

\\You should repent of your false accusations.\\

What is your evidence that the statement is false?

\\it was claimed by one of the people actually there as part of AHA, that the part of going on Sunday was not a planned part of the organized conference.\\

"Part of AHA" is not say-able. It's like saying "part of Calvinism" or "part of dispensationalism". Do you mean that there were some abolitionists somewhere? I'm sure there were. Why is that relevant?

\\You misrepesented in yoiur tweet as though you were a part of the 'event'\\

How? Facebook says right there on the status "Madrid", b/c that's where I live. Please don't make up reasons to accuse out of thin air.

\\multitudes of times it has been claimed that AHA is not an organization. \\

Because it isn't one.

\\ You prove the point, for deeming to speak for them, when several of them confronted you and told you that they didn't agree with what you wrote as representing what the event was about.\\

This statement is so poorly reasoned that it's just laughable.
1) I didn't speak FOR anyone. I put it up as my own personal status.
2) You refute your own point in pointing out quite rightly that numerous abolitionists publicly or semi-publicly criticised my status... and why? Not because I misrep'd some organisation. Because they thought it was wrong!
3) The Project Nineveh event in LA **was** an organised event! I don't understand how y'all can't seem to grasp simple distinctions. When abolitionists get together to form an abolitionist society, that's an organisation! When they start a store to sell AHA gear, that's an organisation! When they get together to carry out certain events over the course of a few days in a certain area, that's an organised event!
None of that means that AHA is an organisation. These are simple distinctions. Use your head. Grow up and deal like a big boy with the actual state of affairs.

No comments: