Thursday, September 17, 2009

You get that cross down this instant!!

The Center for Inquiry blog posted an article with a rather offensive title that I found strange, so here are my thoughts. Until today, I'd always thought that an organisation with the name "Center for Inquiry" would be a science society, but I started to be suspicious when the Oklahoma U CFI invited Dan Barker to speak in November. Barker is no scientist - far from it - and certainly no philosopher of science. But, as it turns out, CFI's mission is "to foster a secular society based on science, reason, freedom of inquiry, and humanist values." Oh, well that explains Barker. Anyway, on to the comments on the article:

From the Christian side of the aisle...a different perspective.
Why is it your or anyone else's business whether a private enterprise puts up a cross? No one is forcing you to go shopping there. If my local grocer put up a bunch of "worship Satan NOW!!!!" posters, I'd tell the mngr it was lame, share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with him, and hope he'd change his mind. If he wouldn't, I'd go to a different grocery store if it irritated me sufficiently.
I don't understand how putting up a cross demonstrates "disrespect (to) those without religion or those with minority religions". Shall I then think that any positive expression of naturalistic materialism or secular humanism or whatever it is you hold is automatically a disrespect of my own worldview? Not that I mind if you disrespect my worldview; you're wrong, but whether my worldview is "disrespected" doesn't send me running to the nearest newspaper. Why the oversensitive inconsistency?

You said:
Who wants to (shop) where someone else's faith is being pushed down your throat?

1) Apparently you don't. So go shop somewhere else. Let this guy try to make it in a marketplace where he has to compete with others, who might not have crosses in their stores. If you think you can do better, open your own store, and make sure none of your products contain the word "cross" or "Jesus" or "Jesús". Whatever you want.
2) How is hanging a cross on the wall shoving his faith down your throat? I suppose ABC News' showing the Pope's visit to the White House is shoving Romanism down your throat too.

Does this mean that a manager who lacked belief in the supernatural would be less qualified to manage the store?

You should know as well as I do that they were almost certainly referring to the man's Christianity-based integrity, sense of fair play, and honesty.

"If the Jews feel offended, They should, thats called guilt"

He might have been referring to the whole Christ-killer thing, true. And why not?
Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this Man’s blood; see to that yourselves.” 25 And all the people said, “His blood shall be on us and on our children!” 26 Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having Jesus scourged, he handed Him over to be crucified.

"Christ-killer" is not a Christian invention; it's a Jewish invention. Of course, the Romans share responsibility with the Jews for the immediate, physical occurrence of the execution of Jesus. But,
Romans 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
John 10: 17 (Jesus said:) “For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 “No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

In the grand scheme of things, *I* killed Christ b/c He chose to give Himself as a substitutionary sacrifice, an atonement for all the lawbreaking I've done. All the believers, Jewish, Roman army, and other Gentile, through history receive this benefit and thus also share in this (propitiated) guilt.

I'm not personally offended by the crucifix

Well, you seemed sort of bent out of shape that it was "shoving faith down (your) throat".

how inappropriate everyone might find it if above the service desk were a statement pushing a lack of belief in a god.

Then everyone who found it inappropriate would be free to shop elsewhere, wouldn't they? If it's YOUR property, you have the right to post whatever you want, and statements about faith and worldview are not indecent like a pornographic image would be. So, no, that wouldn't be inappropriate. Maybe you could start an atheist grocery store.

since the store is taking government funds to open a location downtown.

ISTM a lot of private enterprises take gov't funds for similar things. Maybe you should petition your gov't to add a proviso in future business dealings to that effect. But it's still a private enterprise.

Afterall, what business wants to display something in a very prominent place that may offend a minority of its customers(?)

This one. And if it thrives long-term in the very competitive and difficult grocery business, the answer to your question would be "a successful one".

Overall, it sounds like you were kind of desperate for material for today's blogpost, and spiced it up with a pretty offensive title. Why not try a little more tolerance in the future? It's good for those ulcers too.


Darlene said...

We each bear a responsibility for Christ's Passion. It was my sins, your sins, the sins of every person ever born that caused our precious, spotless Lamb to be nailed on the Cross of Calvary. But for those who are living in rebellion against God, the sight of a cross is offensive.

Still, we must imitate our Lord's example and show mercy to those in darkness and have the same attitude when He said from the Cross, "Forgive them for they know not what they do."

zilch said...

Hey Rho. I haven't had time to spare for cybersparring recently, but I must respond to this post: I agree with you! If someone wants to put up a cross, or a pentagram, or a picture of two mating dinosaurs (what I have) in their place of business, it's their business, and more power to them!

See- atheists and theists do have common ground!

Rhology said...

Mating dinosaurs?

You get that image down this instant!!

Seriously, though, that's kind of weird. But funny. I'd laugh if I saw it. ;-)

Anders said...

You wrote: “7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

I want to comment about grace and atonement.

(le-havdil) How to live in order to enable the Creator in His loving kindness to provide His kipur –atonement- is outlined in Tan’’kh ; and was also taught by Ribi Yehoshua. The first century Ribi Yehoshua from Nazareth (the Mashiakh; the Messiah) taught in accordance with Tan’’kh the only way to get connection with the Creator.

Read more here:

Anders Branderud