Monday, March 07, 2011

Young, bigoted, and pro-choice

I joined with some other members of the local abolitionist society to go put up pro-life posters around town Saturday.  4 people were seen a few hours later walking around, tearing them down.  Some of our people followed them and took pictures of them doing so, for future reference, which I thought was a great (and funny) idea.  I was then told one of the names of these "Choice Crusaders" (the name they picked for themselves) and decided to PM him on Facebook.  The following conversation ensued:



Me
Hi JD,

Just wanted to drop you a line about yesterday. You sure showed us! Who knew that suppressing other voices was the best way toward a better society?

Peace,
Rhology

JD
awww arent you just precious! Its funny how you talk about suppressing the voices of others, when you guys cant even take the time to listen to the women who experience the pains of pregnancy.

I hope we showed you that its not right to deface the town with bullshit propaganda, and Dont worry we plan to keep collecting your posters, and will show you what we have done with them in a couples weeks, it will be most epic.



Me
Hi JD,

You don't know me. May I ask how you know that we don't take the time to listen to women who experience the pains of pregnancy? May I also ask what that phrase means?

Also, in what way do you think you showed us that it's not right to do what we did?

Finally, when you said "it will be most epic", it gives me the impression that you don't really take this issue seriously. We happen to think it's an issue of life and death, and that pregnancy and children are a big, and serious, issue and deal. Can you give me some assurance that you have miscommunicated your intentions?

Peace,
Rhology

JD
No I dont know you at all, I do know that your a weird asshole who likes to take pics of me, and my girls. THis is quite suspicious. You dont know what pregnancy is like and you never will. Nothing was miscommunicated on my part, and this is a serious issue, not about life however but about men wanting to control the lives of women. Abortion is defined as the intentional termination of a pregnancy, nothing more nothing less. I would also like to say that I am not Pro-Abortion Im Pro-Choice, Pro-Education, and Pro-Women. You know we may not have this large number of aborted "babies" if your groups supported education and condom usage which could certainly reduce the number of alleged "murders" However many members of the anti choice groups are against condom usages because I gues they encourage sex or whatever which is totally wrong in the eyes of the christian god and that they also spread STDs, so I can also conclude that my Mom being an HIV Educator is just wasting her time.... abstinence is the only way......Wow I could go on and on, but I do feel conversation with your group is a waste of my time, and I have homework.

I hope you have a BLESSED evening.

Me
Actually, I didn't take any pics; I wasn't there. But to be fair I thought it was a great idea. It's not that we took pictures of YOU; we took pictures of pro-baby-murder zealots who were suppressing freedom of expression. That those zealots happened to include you is a poor reflection your character, actually, but don't blame us for that, please.

Funny you should say that about pregnancy - you don't know what it's like either, nor will you ever. The other irony is that you don't know what it's like to be forcefully dismembered, and probably never will, but you're more than happy (apparently) to support that practice happening all over.

Your smokescreen about pro-choice, education, etc, is hollow b/c removing our information from the public view is actually counter-choice and counter-education. I think if you would think it through objectively, you would realise that.

Again, how do you know we don't support education and condom usage? Would you mind, if you're ignorant of our position, ASKING what it is instead of assuming, please?

Well, it's too bad that you think convo with our group is a waste of time, since you haven't yet made one substantive comment that had any useful argumentation in support of either your position or if your actions ripping down our signs. I keep hoping for that kind of interaction from the pro-baby-murder side of things, and I am consistently disappointed. I guess I should've expected as much from a zealot who claims to be pro-education and yet suppresses dissenting voices, not through reasoned debate, but through sheer force.

Peace,
Rhology

JD
I know that you guys dont support condom usage because I met so many of the ambassadors at the JFA protest who argued with me about them! Also you dont know that I couldn't have a baby, How do you not know that Im transgendered I still have ovaries and can definitely know what it feels like? Pro Baby Murder Zealots? Wow....that made me giggle, Life doesn't begin til first breath dude. It may be a piece of human tissue, but so is the dead skin on my arm.

I would like this message from me to be the last, because....frankly its ridiculous that were even arguing over this, abortion has been settled in Roe V. Wade....I can have one whenever, so trying to advocate the reversal of this is pointless, it wont happen.


Good night and Good Bye

Me
Hi JD,

Oh, I see. Well, we're not identical to JFA. I don't care much about the condom thing; maybe you should be talking to some Roman Catholics about it?
I think I'm pretty safe in assuming that you don't have, nor could have, a baby.
1) There are only a few thousand transgendered in the WORLD.
2) Out of those, fewer can grow facial hair like I see you have. You also don't look much like a girl.
3) I wonder how many people have had a baby and only then had a sex change?
I mean, this could go on and on. Spare me. You're a guy, you said something ill-advised. Retract it, and let's move on.

Yes, you're a zealot. It should tell you something that you were among only 4 other people who were going around suppressing free expression of ideas in your community, and you just told me you had to go because you had homework to do, so obviously you put a high priority on suppression of ideas that make you uncomfortable. That's a hallmark of fundamentalist, bigoted zealotry.

Now, you said that life does not begin until the first breath. That's actually getting to the heart of the issue, for which I commend you. I'd like to ask how you know that. Not "think" it. KNOW it. If you don't KNOW it, then it's the exact equivalent of, while out hunting or something, seeing bushes rustle 100 yds away and emptying your rifle magazine into the bushes. Hey, you don't know, it might be a deer. Thing is, it also might be another hunter. You pro-baby-murder types prefer to shoot first and ask questions later. We pro-lifers prefer it the other way around.
Who gets to define when life begins?

Peace,
Rhology

UPDATE:
I just got a reply from JD.

Your just hilarious =)

Abolish Human Ignorance.



"Your" and then "Ignorance"... I'm speechless.

20 comments:

bossmanham said...

Funny you should say that about pregnancy - you don't know what it's like either, nor will you ever. The other irony is that you don't know what it's like to be forcefully dismembered, and probably never will, but you're more than happy (apparently) to support that practice happening all over.

That is priceless. These morons apparently can't think beyond their own noses.

Rhology said...

I just got a reply from JD.

Your just hilarious =)

Abolish Human Ignorance.



"Your" and then "Ignorance"... I'm speechless.

Abolition said...

Thanks for sharing your lovely "conversation" with this self-proclaimed "choice crusader."

I wonder if this guy (guy/girl possibly transgendered individual) represents the "choice crusaders" or if he is just their odd ball sidekick that they can't keep reigns on.

If he is the cream of their crop. The abolition of human abortion is right around the corner. Just get this guy on TV saying half the things he said to you in message, and the game is over.

Abolitionists hang up an actual photograph of a living nine week old fetus with the message, "I am not a clump of cells" on it, and they take an exacto blade to the pole its on, rip it down, and accuse those who hung it of being anti-education, anti-speech, and anti-woman. Dome of the abolitionist hanging posters in the area that JD was photographed cutting them down were women.

Even if I thought that the Abolitionist Society was wrong for hanging up posters for the purpose of spreading information on abortion or presenting their opinion regarding abortion, this dude (dudette or both) and his friends are straight silly for ripping and cutting them down.

But I guess when your arguments come down to--"I might have ovaries and one day be able to have a baby, that won't become a baby till it takes its first breath"--and other similar drivel, you have to resort to, as you say, sheer force.

Crusaders is a good self-label.

PS: I bet these dorks take all the abolitionist posters they vandalized and stole and try to make some tasteless and vulgar wanna-be artistic but aesthetically inept project out of them.

Abolitionist want to discuss Embryological Development-- Choice Crusaders want to shut them up, still their stuff and produce giant pornographic images.

David B said...

While the "pro-baby-murder" label was inaccurate (though provocative, sure), this was definitely a good example of someone who's NOT interested in intelligent debate. Him, I mean. Not you.

aztexan said...

Assuming the boy isn't queer (and that's a big assumption), he probably figures spouting lunatic feminist rhetoric will improve his otherwise poor chances of scoring a piece of tail. And in the unlikely event one of his puny sperm should impregnate the hypothetical (and obviously desperate) femiskank, well, the "solution" to the oopsie is built right into the very philosophy that forged their unholy coupling. How convenient.

Anonymous said...

Hi Guys! Im the guy your talking about in the message. First off dont question my gender indentity I am who I am and Im sorry that your fucked binary codes of who is a woman and is a man prevents you from recognizabilty the humaness of other peoples. I saw "queer" was used and that could be a good term, it covers all these bases. I laughed so hard when I saw the "get sum tail" comment hahahaha, I have a boyfriend and can get any tail I want from him. I also want to adress the fact that there is no choice crusaders, it was just a name made up to mock you guys. I am in no way a leader, because just like you guys and I do kinda of agree I am not the most intelligent person on the issue, because I am just a freshman and have recently become apart of the Reproductive Rights Issue. LASTLY, We are closed minded on the issue that WOMEN HAVE CHOICES.

<3

Rhology said...

Yes, JD, it's painfully obvious you're close minded on the issue.

It's sad to see, however, that you've shown no ability to engage arguments that, if true, destroy your position.
Welcome to the big leagues, kid.

Anonymous said...

I think it funny how you want to settle an argument by talking to a "kid"?

Are you just afraid of our scary feministas?

Rhology said...

Terrified.

aztexan said...

Anon/JD,

Listen, Mary. There's no need to get bitchy; and while few appreciate salty language more than I, four-letter expletives are out of place here. Face the fact you've been pegged (not in the way you enjoy, obviously) as young, ignorant and misguided.

At this early stage of your life you've only heard and considered one side of the issue, namely, the side that scrambles feebly to justify organized mass homicide with nothing more substantive than hollow emotionalism and shrill entitlement-rhetoric.

If you're truly committed to free exchange of ideas and information, then you will, in years to come, seek to understand viewpoints not your own, and in doing so you will begin to see that your current battlement is little more than a child's sandcastle outside a massive death camp, shoddily erected to guard the indefensible atrocities carried out therein.

Please, JD, take a Pamprin, lay down your weapons, unclench your mind and your fists, and seek to at least understand the pro-life side of this vital issue. If nothing else, possessing an accurate understanding of our position (not straw men fashioned by your side) and the motives and reasoning behind it (not your side's bigoted caricature of us) will not only make you a wiser and better-rounded person, but it will equip you with solid ammunition (not the mud pies you're slinging now) with which to lay seige to our sanctimonious little Christian fortress...right?

May God, Who is Himself the Truth and the source and owner of all truth, guide and bless your search for understanding in this and all other matters.

Anonymous said...

Um. your ignorance on trans gendered individuals is vast. trans men grow facial hair within weeks of starting testosterone therapy. why are you so concerned about our gender identities? yes, we are a bunch of tranny queers. got a problem?

Rhology said...

Anon,

Oh.
Well, I'm glad we had this little chat.

Sandy Castles said...

Welcome to the "big leagues"?

"...you will begin to see that your current battlement is little more than a child's sandcastle outside a massive death camp, shoddily erected to guard the indefensible atrocities carried out therein."

Wah wah. A little heavy-handed, don't you think? Also, pro-baby-murder-zealot? Seriously?

Honey, we're all pretty familiar with the anti-abortion position. I'm not sure if you can even conceptualize this, but many of us identified as pro-life at some point in our lives before we educated ourselves on the repercussions of the denial of access to reproductive health initiatives. After all, we all live in Oklahoma; it shouldn't be a shock to you that we've heard this song and dance and even participated in it at one point or another. I don't think its necessary to refamiliarize ourselves with it every time one of you gets your feelings hurt because we won't meet you for coffee at Gray Owl.

We have more important things to do. Taking down your pathetic posters is just for funsies. Stop whining and find a more effective tactic.

Rhology said...

I'm not sure if you can even conceptualize this, but many of us identified as pro-choice at some point in our lives before we educated ourselves on the repercussions of the removal of human rights from people based simply on their age and physical location. I myself am a convert to pro-life. It simply required some education.


Also, pro-baby-murder-zealot? Seriously?

Yes, seriously. Here you go.


Stop whining and find a more effective tactic.

If providing reasoned argumentation = "Whining", then why haven't you provided any reasoned argumentation for your own position?

aztexan said...

Well, there's no arguing with a Southern sissy hell-bent on letting Daddy know just how much she hates him.

If you do truly understand our position - and even held it at one time (yeah, right) - then you've less excuse than the garden variety sodomite who hasn't the first clue.

But you just keep right on doin' yer thang, cupcake. Goodbye Gray Owl, hello Grey Gardens. *snap-snap-snap*

Sandy Castles said...

Oh you guys. I'm not your resource for how effective social movements work. You'll just have to figure that out yourselves. If you've provided reasoned argumentation, I've missed it. Mostly I see a lot of inflamed, unsupported rhetoric.

@aztexan, you're funny in that kind of nonsensical surrealist humor sort of way. I actually like my father quite a bit. He's a pretty cool dude.

Also, what working definition of sodomy are you working with? Because maybe I am a garden-variety sodomite (although garden-variety is so hurtful... after all, aren't all God's children special?)

I'm not really looking for an "excuse," just explaining from my personal experience why I don't feel the need to educate myself on what you may perceive as being very unique, persuasive arguments, mostly because my familiarity with them have allowed me to see that they are neither.

I'm not sure what Grey Gardens has to do with anything, except that some of us are women and it was a play of Gray Owl. Bit of a stretch. But I guess that its not your fault that reproductive justice activists are just funnier.

Also, snap snap snap? Nobody does that anymore, dude. Dated humor lolz!

Rhology said...

aztexan,

Not trying to be mean here, but please back down. Let's make our currency reasoned argumentation, not mockery.


Sandy,

And I'm just explaining from my personal experience why I don't feel the need to educate myself on what you may perceive as being very unique, persuasive arguments (even though that would be a product of self-deception, since you haven't actually offered any), mostly because my familiarity with them have allowed me to see that they are neither.

Thing is, I have no reason to think that you do in fact have familiarity with them. Prove it by engaging them and showing why they're wrong.

Sandy Castles said...

Reasoned argumentation does not equal rephrasing things that I've said and inserting your own language. Its a pretty cheap rhetorical technique, but that's just indicative of most anti-choice arguments.

I'm not really sure where the benefit lies for me in "proving" myself as an ex-pro-lifer to you, or really just proving myself in general. My current goals are not really centered around conversion, as its not really the most strategic position to take at this point.

Plz plz plz rephrase everything I said and put in new words! They're getting more nonsensical with each passing post!

aztexan said...

>>Thing is, I have no reason to think that you do in fact have familiarity with them. Prove it by engaging them and showing why they're wrong.<<

Rho, that was precisely my point. You're wasting your time with this idiot.

thechemistscorner said...

Sandy,

The Penguin Dictionary of Biology defines life as “complex physico-chemical systems whose two main peculiarities are (1) storage and replication of molecular information in the form of nucleic acid, and (2) the presence of (or in viruses perhaps merely the potential for) enzyme catalysis.” This clearly places a fertilized egg as a living organism. Further, life begins from the moment of fertilization as marked by the slow block to polyspermy under this definition. It is simply untenable to claim that life does not begin at conception from a scientific perspective. This takes us to the next major issue here. When is the right to life conferred?

Life is a process from the moment of conception to death. We are all at different points among the spectrum. However, that does not mean that we are paralyzed when it comes to determining when life begins or whether or not that life possess basic rights. It seems to me that claiming rights are conferred at birth is rather arbitrary, and I am not alone in this assessment. Peter Singer seriously advocates infanticide precisely because using birth as the demarcation of rights is arbitrary. In the end, any list or criteria used to determine the conferral of rights becomes arbitrary. That is because basic human rights are not a function of some list that is determined by whoever has sufficient power to enforce the list. No, those rights exist because they are intrinsic to the person. Let me put it as a simple argument:

P1. The right to life is an intrinsic property of humans.
P2. If human life begins at conception, then humans possess the right to life from conception.
P3. Human life begins at conception.
C. Humans possess the right to life from conception.

Murder is the unjustified killing of an innocent human. If the argument above goes through, then what else would you call an abortion? Certainly the unborn baby is innocent. I realize that in the US abortion is legal, but that doesn’t make abortion any less immoral. Is lawfully killing a spouse in country where such actions are legal moral for those people? Clearly not, the law is in error and must be changed.