Monday, January 13, 2014

Conversation with byrysh

A family member actually met a local self-described "militant atheist" in a local store and had a conversation of some length with him, then told me about it later. Since the atheist had given her his Internet handle, byrysh, I sent him a PM via YouTube to see if he'd like to talk some time. He later commented on one of my YouTube videos. A lively, albeit one-sided, conversation ensued:

Ok here we go.  If you go around and and punch people, its called assault. Its harming another human. Supreme court has ruled that life doesn't begin until birth. I don't agree with that. If a woman decides, for what ever reason, She wants an abortion, its her body to choose what she wants to do with it. Not mine, yours, or any one else's, but hers. I don't agree with abortion as a form of birth control. But then again its not my body. Should I be able to donate a kidney if someone needs one? yes, its MY body. You trying to instill your belief system into others is called indoctrination. Believe what you want. But don't force it on others. Its a secular nation, that over 44% of Americans believe that the earth is less then 10k years old. RD said that mistake is equivalent to saying NY city and SanFrancisco are 8 yards apart. Its idiotic and not admitting the fallacy in that shows absolute disregard for what science has shown AND proven to be the state of the natural world in which we live. We have came further in under 100 years then theistic beliefs of any nature have brought us in over 4k years. I'm not into debating theists, But I will try and point out the ignorance in falsifiable claims of theists. Whether they choose to listen or not is on them.  Oh  and BTW   Hi  :)


Hi byrysh!

You seem to have forgotten that the baby's body is not the mother's body.

As for "indoctrination", you disappoint already. I'm TALKING TO PEOPLE, John, the same way you are talking to me and anyone else reading your comment. You and I are both trying to PERSUADE. Do you see the gun in my hand in the video? No? Great! It's because I don't have one. I'm not forcing anyone. I'm trying to persuade.

So... you were kind enough to share some of your naked assertions about morality and progress with us. That's pretty typical of atheists, and it probably indicates you've never put much thought into the foundational presuppositions of your view. You just think it, and you blurt it out.

I'd like to ask you: Could you possibly be wrong about these things you've said here?

And do yourself a favor. Don't cite Dawkins as if he has anything worthwhile to say outside of molecular biology. He doesn't. Educated Christians laugh at him, seriously. He is an amazing buffoon.

+Rhology 1) The fetus' body IS  the mothers. 2) Dawkins has a much better grip on the reality of the natural world in which we live, so yeah,I'm going to cite him. 3)Educated christians? There was a "educated christian" that stated " I am a young age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turns against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate" -Kurt Wise  Absolutely moronic and intellectually dishonest!!!. "Educated christian"? yeah w/e. Science has flown men to the moon, Faith has flown men into buildings. Keep believing in idiotic superstitious dogmas that are losing ground at every turn. We will keep improving life REGARDLESS of idiotic belief systems that use fear mongering and childhood indoctrination to pay the bills. Nothing more then glorified snake-oil sales men.

+Rhology And sure, I could be wrong, I'll accept that,   WILL YOU?  I doubt it. That is the difference between religion and science. 

So the mother of a male child has a penis? Mothers have four eyes? Four feet? Two stomachs? Stop it. :-)

I'm just telling you how Dawk is regarded. He's a joke. Cite him at the risk of your own credibility.

I too am a YE creationist. And educated. Don't confuse "educated" with "agrees with my empty worldview".
And, um, science built the airplanes that the terrorists flew into buildings, so that doesn't get you anywhere. And I'm hardly here to defend "faith". I'm a Christian. Those guys were jihadists.
And the entirety of the scientific enterprise depends on the existence of Jesus. If you doubt that, please PROVE that the future will be like the past. Don't ASSERT it. And don't beg the question by saying sthg like "well, physical laws haven't changed before." Because...
1) that begs the question. We're not asking about the past, but about the future.
2) all you have is SOME recordings from a relatively short period of time from a statistically insignificant sample size, compared to all the locations in the universe
3) I'm about to ask you to PROVE (and not assert) that your and other peoples' senses are always reliable.

OK, so you could be wrong. That's a reasonable thing to say.
Could you be wrong about everything you claim to know?

+Rhology science didnt make them do it.   Their faith did.
Can't "prove" anything beyond the shadow of a doubt. Not very likely is a great place to be though.
"And the entirety of the scientific enterprise depends on the existence of Jesus"
That is one of the most idiotic things i have ever heard. OMFG  we are done here.

Um, did science make the astronauts fly to the moon? No, it ENABLED them to fly there.
In other words, you're making a total category error. Think!

That's nice that you think my statement was stupid. Did you have an answer to my questions?

+Rhology It also "enabled" jihadists to fly into buildings. They did it because of their faith. Look, The world is over 4 BILLION years old. accept the truth or not. If ya dont then dont drive your car because the gas is over 100 million years old. It takes light 150k years just to cross our galaxy to be able to see it. FACTS, UNALIENABLE, INCONTRAVERTIBLE FACTS!!! Choose to ignore it?  Fine, dont push idiotic belief in a fairy godfather off on the rest of us. AND teach kids to think for themselves, NOT WHAT to think.

+Rhology chicken chess  lol Are you an advocate for the stork theory? Should we teach alchemy along with science? Should we teach astrology as well as astrononomy?   lol like I said Im done.

+byrysh Of course it did. So the bad guy is not religion or science. It's BAD religion.

Meh, you can assert things like this old age of the Earth, but you can't PROVE it. You have to ASSUME all sorts of things, and I'd be happy to explain further what I mean, but I'd need some sort of assurance that your mind isn't totally closed and that you're after something other than confirming your own bias.

How do you know the gas is over 100m years old? Prove it?
About the starlight, please prove that the light beam started at some point from the star and had to arrive here. Rather, I believe God created the stars AND their light beams stretching between stars and Earth. So, we have the fact: light from stars that are very far away.
Your explanation: an old Earth
My explanation: God created the stars AND the light between the Earth and the stars.
Both explain the fact.

I do teach kids to think for themselves. For example, I'll teach them to question even hot-air atheists like you seem to be. I'll do so by leading them through the reasoning process of answering serious questions, which you have been unwilling to do so far.

Let me remind you. Please answer these questions:

A) Could you be wrong about everything you claim to know?

B) Please PROVE that the future will be like the past. Don't ASSERT it. And don't beg the question by saying sthg like "well, physical laws haven't changed before." Because...
i) that begs the question. We're not asking about the past, but about the future.
ii) all you have is SOME recordings from a relatively short period of time from a statistically insignificant sample size, compared to all the locations in the universe
iii) I'm about to ask you to PROVE (and not assert) that your and other peoples' senses are always reliable.

+byrysh The stork theory? What are you talking about?
Does astrology have any strong argument in its favor? Can it answer my questions? Can you answer my questions?

+Rhology Science gives all sorts of evidence. When a crime is committed, the detective goes by evidence. He wasnt there but can add it up and make a good case. Just like the geology of the earth, stars, and cosmos. YOU choose not to accept it but live in your little dream world. Its like a trained gynecologist debating a stork theory advocate about conception and child birth. And no astrology has no strong argument in its favor. NEITHER DOES THEISM. NO EVIDENCE FOR ANY GODS OF ANY KIND!!! Be it apollo, zeus, chrishna, yahweh, wotan, or the juju at the top of the mountain. And what gives your god precedence over allah? Oh yeah, Born in america to predominantly christian parents. Have ya heard that volcanoes are lava welling up through the earths crust? For centuries christians thought that god was mad. Oh yeah earthquakes, plate tectonics, heard about that? Its not god. Earths not flat either dont ya know. Science has shrank the theistic world to nothingness. Grow up, put away idiotic beliefs and live this life like its the only one ya get, because it is, hate to break it to ya. And it will take on a whole new meaning.  Its not as pretty as your little "live for ever in servitude and blissfullness" but it is reality. When you die, end of story.
A) yes I could be wrong, not very likely. But show me the evidence I'll change my mind, you on the other hand wont budge. Because "GAWD DEED EET"
B) Forgot my crystal ball, cant see the future, (what an idiotic question), No the physical laws havent changed for about 13.5 billion years since universe started cooling down. The universe is around 14 billion. Our senses were evolved for the narrow spectrum of visible light so we could survive on the plains of africa, not to contemplate the cosmos, but through science we can create and use tools to measure the age of the earth, distance and time scale of the cosmos. Really, ya should look at the evidence for what it is, its a lot neater then some idea a bronze age sheepherder had. 1 star in a galaxy of over 400 million in a universe of over 400 BILLION Galaxies. gods gettin smaller all the time.

God has precedence over Allah b/c He exists and Allah doesn't. We can talk about that later if you like.

You don't know anything about whether my parents are predominantly Christian, do you? You're just generalising based on poor understanding of Christian theology and American demographics.

God is mad.

You don't know that about physical laws. You just think it. You don't have evidence for your assertion. But you don't accept what you think is an evidence-free assertion on my part, that Jesus is Lord. Playing by your own rules, your assertions fall short.
You don't know that thing about visible light. You just think it.

Before we talk about evidence, I'd like evidence that evidence is a useful way to arrive at truth. All you've done so far is to give me your Confession of Faith.

So, you could be wrong about everything. Thank you. Now, since you could be wrong about everything, that means you have actually given up knowledge. You keep making knowledge claims, but you could be wrong about them and you don't say that to anyone. You just make the knowledge claim. That is disingenuous. Take the claim that "it's not very likely". How do you know? You don't, b/c you could be wrong about everything.
If I tell you that the speed limit behind my house is 40 mph, but I could be wrong, I don't KNOW it, do I? No, I don't. I THINK it, but I don't KNOW it. That's your position in everything.
So, what this means is that, if your worldview is true, you can't actually know anything. I agree. If atheism is true, I see every reason to think the following:
1) we can't know anything
2) there is no basis to think that nature is uniform
3) we can't be sure we even perceive or sense anything correctly
4) there is no value or meaning at all, of any kind. Which means that even the fact that we can't know anything and nature is not necessarily uniform doesn't matter. Which means that the truth that these things don't matter, itself doesn't matter.

Please explain how this worldview does not result in literal, total absurdity.

+Rhology So as far as Allah is concerned your an atheist too. Probably the same for chrishna, zeus, appollo, wotan and all the other man made gods. I just took it one step further, I dont believe in any of them.  "God has precedence over Allah b/c He exists and Allah doesn't" Prove it...Not with scripture or your "feelings about a personal god" Because if we go that way, I believe in harry Potter, Its in the book, and at least there we know who the author is. And I was "moved" by the morality that Dumbledore shows in it. Church of Hogwarts FTW!!! But seriiusly, there is evidence for my world view, You choose not to accept it. Thats it, I'm done.

+byrysh No, I am not an atheist. Even if I don't believe in one of the counterfeit gods. That is an enormous category error, and you should know better than to be reveal stupidity in that way.

Hey, what about my other challenges? Can't deal with them?
No surprise - no atheist can.
The proof that God exists is that if God doesn't exist, you can't prove anything.

+Rhology Your ignorance abut the word atheist is enough for me. Simply means 1 thing and 1 thing only. Disbelief in a deity.. No world view's, You dont believe in all the other gods THEREFORE you are an atheist as far as they are concerned. Your ignorance about the world in which we live astounds me and even OE creationists. Empirical scientific evidence   you have none, Theism is on its way out. I wont live to see it finally gone from this earth, But I'm glad I'm here to see it in it's death throws.

+byrysh You didn't read the refutation about whether I'm an atheist, so there's nothing to say in response to your non-statements.

So, no answers?

Nope. Live in your little fantasy world. You "assert" w/o evidence other then your BOOK. I "assert" with evidence the brightest minds of our day that understands the workings about the natural world in which we live better then you or I. Really, Just like chicken checkers. I got better things to do other then waste my time off debating with a diluted sheep man. Later.    TTA Podcast 144: Random Acts of Kindness       Good with out a god. "For goodness sakes"      The Story of Suzie

I don't remember asserting nearly as much as you. But I've asked you some questions, very serious ones, and you're not answering them.

You say "good without a god"? How do you know what good is? What is your evidence that what you think is good is actually good? Will you answer THAT question at least, since you won't answer my other questions?

Good is what is beneficial for the community. What increases happiness and minimizes suffering. Telling lies about the formation of the universe to further your agenda. BAD

Those are naked assertions, much like what you think "Jesus is Lord" is.
Please present your evidence that what you say is correct.

+Rhology Done. No god(s) deal with it.

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