Friday, April 06, 2007

Defeat

Adam has admitted defeat.

-Since Judgment is gone, of course there is no NEED, no COMMAND to be good.
-Since Christ only prayed once in public, at the request of His Apostles to teach them, we have to believe that prayer was understood to be private and personal.
-We saw God threatening to destroy the Earth in the Old Testament -- He never did.
Adam is still, of course, welcome to dialogue here, but that last one, whooo boy!
And he hasn't even gotten to the meat of my objections yet.

He is risen indeed! Have a blessed Pascha.

11 comments:

A.B. Dada said...

I wish I was on Easter break! We're down to the last 48 hours before Protestant Easter service, and we're printing on all of our machines simultaneously, so I can't delve into the actual responses I'd like.

But I'll leave this bit.. I haven't admitted defeat, in fact, I think I proved my point. God's threats of destroying things were for prophecies fulfilled but not fulfilled in the way that those who were destroyed expected. God's fulfillment of prophecy seems to always go counter to what the majority of mortals expected -- just as His fulfillment of His Judgment in 70 AD :)

I'll be back Sunday!

Celebrate the Resurrection with brothers and sister of faith of all doctrines.

Rhology said...

Adam,

You may not have expressly said, "I admit defeat," but your statements lead any objective reader inevitably to that conclusion. Perhaps the Lord will be merciful and open your eyes to see it.

Peace,
ALAN

Moth said...

You're a piece of work Alan.

MothandRust said...

Not in a bad way... of course. Just very dedicated and disciplined - all the attributes we need to advance further as a people.

Anonymous said...

"I repeat, you will be able to tell them by their fruits".(Mat.7:15-20).

As an outsider looking in, I just don't understand what good comes from all of this arguing. Please don't forget non-Christians are watching you. If this is what Christianity is all about - flexing intellectual muscles in regards to Scripture - then it seems a membership few would want to join or even qualify for, for that matter.

There are people out there without a lick of education, with no knowledge of Theology or Religion or History, who have no idea what Jewish culture looks like, who have no clue what a Futurist is or a Preterist, who maybe don't even know that much Scripture...but their hearts bleed for Christ. They are humble, they are loving, they are giving, they esteem others as better than themselves and they live out the Scriptures daily because God has written the law in their minds AND hearts and they are letting HIM decide truth for them by the power of the Holy Spirit.

And they are out there applying it.

I don't know all of you and am making no judgments about what type of persons you are. But like many others, all I see it's what's on this blog- and what I see is a lot of Christians sitting around arguing with each other. Honestly, that's it. Where is the positive message? Where is the truth about what's right instead of always pointing out what's wrong? I would so much rather see a blog filled with living testimonies of God's love evidenced in your lives and how your hearts our changing because of His power. Tell me about your adventures in the world - your prodigal moments and your moments of triumph. SHOW me who Jesus is. Share the stories of when God penetrated your heart and you cried like a baby...and show me your praise and admiration and reverance for what an amazing God you serve...and the Truths you are learning because of His glory. WHERE is His glory???

Again, I guess I might just be missing the purpose behind this blog and if so, I apologize ahead of time. But if it is supposed to inspire me, it doesn't. If it's supposed to help me grow in God because of the knowledge I'm learning, it doesn't. With all due respect, I just don't know that I care that much about what A.B. Dada thinks or what Rhobology thinks or anyone really...I want to know God's Truth. Because HIS Truth has a way of breaking your heart and penetrating your soul to a point of conviction and change and brokeness and humility and surrender. I don't recognize those Truths here, no matter how biblically sound all of these opinions might be.

My honest heart on this matter is that these "conversations" leave me empty and more confused. They don't inspire me to change - they inspire a shifting in my seat. A slight feeling of "uncomfortableness" that leaves me wondering if the conversation is about to turn ugly. They leave me sad. They don't feel like Jesus. They don't feel like love. They don't feel like soul-quenching truth that cuts like a knife - they feel like man's opinions. They feel empty and they leave me wishing Jesus were here.

And they leave me wondering where the fruit is.

Rhology said...

Anonymous,

I heard you the first time.

Thanks for stopping by! Check back - I'll noodle this and get back to it w/in a day or 2.

Peace,
ALAN

Anonymous said...

Yes sorry about that, I realized I posted it in an older discussion and thought I should repost it somewhere more recent. No harm no foul I would hope.

Rhology said...

No problem at all - don't worry about it.
Talk to you soon.

Rhology said...

Hi Anonymous,

You make me wonder if you are my younger brother. Well, if you are - welcome; let's talk about this on the phone soon. If not, welcome; let's talk here (or by email, whichever you prefer). :-)

Anon: As an outsider looking in, I just don't understand what good comes from all of this arguing. Please don't forget non-Christians are watching you.
Rhology: Yes, I am well aware of that. And it's in the forefront of my mind.
Part of the point that I don't think you've grasped is that nobody w/ whom I've been discussing/debating recently should be considered a Christian (w/ the possible exception of my EO-dox interlocutors, whom I would also consider part of a different religion).
What good comes of it? I guess doing what God told me to do.
That's good enough.
And I hope to unsettle my convo partners in their false beliefs so that they come to repentance.
Finally, I hope to encourage any believers who are reading so that they may be strengthened in their faith, more confident to go out and tell people about Jesus.

Anon: If this is what Christianity is all about - flexing intellectual muscles in regards to Scripture
Rhology: It's not.

Anon: then it seems a membership few would want to join or even qualify for, for that matter.
Rhology: I know that much - Romans 1, Romans 3, Ephesians 2, and Matthew 6-7 told me already. But people refuse to "join" not b/c I'm a big meanie but b/c they hate Jesus.

Anon: There are people out there without a lick of education...but their hearts bleed for Christ. They are humble, they are loving, they are giving, they esteem others as better than themselves and they live out the Scriptures daily...And they are out there applying it.
Rhology: A few things:
1) That is highly commendable of them and very true.
2) It is not commendable to remain in ignorance; we must grow in the wisdom of God (ie, the Scriptures and a biblical worldview).
3) You know nothing about me. You don't know my witness at work, whether I am a leader in my church, how I treat others around me, how I treat my wife, family and neighbors, whether I've ever given up alot of money, time, and convenience to drop everythg and go overseas to tell people about Jesus.
I'm not trying to jump all over you, but I want you to see how judgmental you have become just b/c you don't like to see people who hate Jesus subjected to hard questions. You come off (no doubt unwittingly) as thinking that leaving people's beliefs unchallenged is to be preferred to trying to unsettle them so that they might repent before Christ, and it becomes suddenly permissible in your mind to stick forks into a guy who is trying to defend the very Bible that also includes all those psgs about love and mercy to which you allude. I'm asking you to straighten out your thinking.

Anon: I don't know all of you and am making no judgments about what type of persons you are.
Rhology: I can tell you that Dave and Adam are very nice and patient people. MothandRust has a good sense of humor but isn't very nice or intellectually honest. Of those, only Dave has anythg resembling a biblical worldview.
But questions of salvation and truth don't depend on "what kind of persons" we are - we are all sinners and enemies of God unless Jesus has saved us.

Anon: what I see is a lot of Christians sitting around arguing with each other.
Rhology: True. Some of those arguments are justifiable and some are not. I would strongly argue that not only was my discussion w/ Dave (who is the only Xtian I've been discussing w/ recently) (unless you count Salva, but we're not really interacting w/ each other) necessary, but it was carried out in an uncondemnable way (w/ the exception of his "corner preacher" remark against me).

Anon: Where is the positive message?
Rhology: One way you can start to straighten out your thinking is to align it w/ the biblical worldview.
And does being positive that I am fearful and have good reason to be fearful for the souls of my interlocutors here count?

Anon: I would so much rather see a blog filled with living testimonies of God's love evidenced in your lives and how your hearts our changing because of His power. Tell me about your adventures in the world
Rhology: You know, there are lots out there, many of which are linked in my personal bookmarks. Email me and I'll send you some.
Or you can check earlier on my blog. Start here. Move forward through the months following while we were in Japan.

Anon: Share the stories of when God penetrated your heart and you cried like a baby...and show me your praise and admiration and reverance for what an amazing God you serve
Rhology: Don't miss this post then.
I wonder how well you do on your own blog, and how much your self-righteousness shines thru there as it does to me in this comment.

Anon: I apologize ahead of time.
Rhology: Your apology is accepted. I am not angry w/ you but I see little reason to accept what you've said so far as relevant.

Anon: But if it is supposed to inspire me, it doesn't.
Rhology: Not everyone is attracted to the defense of the faith. However, I would suggest that if the sight of someone trying to help the enemies of Jesus see the error of their way does not inspire/encourage you even a little bit, a heart-check might be in order.

Anon: If it's supposed to help me grow in God because of the knowledge I'm learning, it doesn't.
Rhology: Then read the Scriptures to which I appeal and grow in the faith b/c of those. That's why they're there. Then go out and tell people about Jesus and answer their objections (for they will come) w/ those verses I've provided for you. You should be thanking me.

Anon: I don't recognize those Truths here, no matter how biblically sound all of these opinions might be.
Rhology: That's the point. You've read some of my interactions w/ Adam Dada and you still have the audacity to say you're not sure which ones might be biblically sound. Let me try to clarify - one is and one isn't. If you can't see which is which, again, a heart-check is in order.

Anon: They don't inspire me to change - they inspire a shifting in my seat. A slight feeling of "uncomfortableness" that leaves me wondering if the conversation is about to turn ugly.
Rhology: That's the Holy Spirit.

Anon: They leave me sad.
Rhology: Why?

Anon: They don't feel like Jesus.
Rhology: You who can't recognise whether it's Adam or me making the biblically sound argument would presume to tell others what "feels like Jesus" or not? That's an interesting thing to say.

Anon: And they leave me wondering where the fruit is.
Rhology: I am not perfect, but one of the fruits of these discussions was provoking this comment from you. The Holy Spirit is trying to reach you through the Scriptures, and you can consider this a good reminder that you don't know enough Scripture even to know how to follow Jesus. I will pray that today will be the day that changes.

Peace,
ALAN

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your thoughts. Unfortunately, I think you've missed my point entirely but that's OK. And no, I'm not your brother. You do not know me either. Or my walk with God.

My issues with the conversations going on are not because I am shifting in my seat at the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I know what the Holy Spirit conviction looks like as I have felt it many times and while I appreciate your hope that it is the reason behind my concern, it's not.

My point is a heart issue and you're arguing intellectually again so we're speaking two different languages. It's not about who has more sound biblical doctrine. Between you and Adam, I a can say biblically, I agree with most of your arguments.

It's the spirit behind all of this. You're right, I don't know your ministry or anything about you. I admitted that. I already said all I see it's what is on this blog so that is ALL I am responding to.

We should not remain in ignorance, correct. But I pray for the Lord to "open the eyes of my heart". I see Him and His truth much better that way. So if you are concerned for my spiritual well-being, thank you! But just know that I'm OK and God is doing great work in my life. I hope, like you, that everyone can experience the love and power of God which is the only reason I was led to make my comments.

I don't think it's good for anyone to be "defeated". What good is winning an argument and defeating someone if their soul is still lost? We all want to be winners and vicorious in Christ. I just hope we're taking concern and care to accomplish that the way Jesus did - with love and compassion.

Anyway, don't feel obligated to respond. I am sure this conversation won't go anywhere, we both have our opinions. Maybe something you said can stick with me and maybe something I said will stick with you. Then at least God is glorified which is all He cares about anyway.

Anonymous said...

PS I forgot that the original point of my post was that I wasn't sure what the point of all of this was. I am guessing based on some of the indirect things you've said, that the point is to win lost souls to Christ...so I guess I just wonder if it's working? If it is, then wonderful, that's all I was concerned about! It wouldn't work for me (but I am already saved so that's OK)...it doesn't seem to work for some of the other "Jesus haters" as you call them...but maybe it's working for someone, and that is my sincere hope.