Monday, April 16, 2007

Questioning how good God is


Ouch - you stayed up late!
No need to do that again - I'll still be here. :-)
And by the way, your level of English never ceases to amaze me - it is excellent.

MINORU: I have only my own experience as the basis of making any judgments.
But you don't have to - that's why I told you the story of Jesus 10 months ago and tried to help you see how worthless and self-defeating it is to seek truth inside yourself. It's not there.

whether I should or should not judge people based on my personal experiences, I would say I should.

Are you using somebody else's standards to make decisions in your daily life ?
Yes, except for the times when I act selfishly and make decisions based on my own standards. God calls that "sin".

Are you sure those standards are really from somebody else's; not just something you understood and made part of your own experience ?
Yes. I would never have made up "take up your cross and follow Jesus" myself, for example.

If you ignore this comment, I'll promise I won't post again on same topic.
Oh no, I'm not irritated at all; I welcome your interaction. I am sorry that I did not communicate that very well.
My question was: Why do YOU post your opinions here, citing (with clear disapproval) a part of the Bible where God does something you don't like?

(complaining is) a trait that runs in my family that makes me complain if I see an oppressor.
OK. And on what basis do you conclude that being an "oppressor" is wrong?
What I'm trying to help you see is that your dislikes and preferences are just that - YOURS. There is no reason why anyone else should agree with them or act the same way you do, unless the God of the Bible exists to make those laws of right and wrong. You are taking the morality that God has helped you to see and are trying to use it to condemn Him.

In a perfect world built by perfect God, wouldn't I naturally know that what he did is morally right ?
Maybe, but I don't believe this is a perfect world. It was made by a perfect God, but the world is not perfect.

Do you think that God has intentionally made the world so that people like me would question him ?
Hmm, yes, actually. God has made the world so that people who hate the light and love darkness would refuse Him.

isn't it God's will to have his morality questioned ?
No, it is sinful to do so.

Why would he have his morality questioned if he is morally right, and there's nothing to question ?
That's the really ironic thing. There is nothing to question, but sinful people still try to find ways to question Him and His morality anyway. Like you, right now. You commented saying "God is mean and hardened that king's heart!" I said "Why is that wrong?" You said "I don't know, but it's wrong for God not to create the world so that He would never be questioned." Now I'm saying, "Why is *that* wrong?"

would you think it is okay for God to want me to be out of touch with reality ?
Yes. God is the definition of good.

Why doesn't the God show me the evidence to get in touch with reality ?
There is plenty of evidence, but you only selectively use logic and rationality in your comments protesting that God doesn't give you enough evidence. That's not God's fault.

I think of you as well educated person wishing good for the world
Yes. And the highest good for any person is to repent of their sin and fall in love with Jesus Christ and be His follower.

Or do you live your life wishing your neighbors to be miserable every day?
Only until they give their life to Jesus.

What's your opinion on terrorism ?
It's a terrible thing, but I'm not sure how it's relevant.

My objection about God is that he is too personal with his driving motivations to be taken in full context of "all-mighty, all-knowing, all-perfect".
But I think that if He were less personal, you'd find a reason to complain about that too.

Perhaps God is not all-perfect on the personal level.
God is the definition of good, so He can't improve. But I don't know how you could know that He is less than perfect. How could you know that?

If he is the only one God, is it unfair for me to expect him to be all-perfect?

If God is "all-whatever-they-say-of-him", by definition there was no need to do it in the first place.
I've already shown why that reasoning is flawed.


this particular phrase about making "his spirit stubborn" appears several times in the Old Testament.
Yes it does, you are 100% right.

it appeared as if the God has intervened with Sihon king of Heshbon and made significant change to his mind to cause (read: set up) certain events to happen.
God is in control of *everything*. He not only intervenes, He is in total control.

Could not he foresee the events and prepared it so that he did not need to make adjustments afterwards ?
I don't see why He could not have done it that way. But He did it His way. On what basis do you think it might be better the way you suggest?

If God is almighty (read: capable of setting things up the right way from the very beginning), why did he leave out the final touch ?
Because He didn't want to.

If this action was intentional, does it not suggest that God has a personality (e.g. leaving things for later instead of doing NOW) ? If God has a personality, what are his traits ?
Any Christian will tell you that God has a personality, yes. His traits are many: loving, just, righteous, holy, pure, wrathful, merciful, graceful, generous, forgiving, powerful, patient. There's more but that's all I can think of right now.

A person who loves to trample on others are rarely peaceful with his own family. What are we to expect in heaven ?
God is not a man. A **person** who tramples on others is a bad person, yes. God is not "trampling" on people - He is changing the world to make the world better by using sinful people.
I think that part of your problem is that you think people are better or at least as good as God. People are bad. I'm not sure how someone could be familiar with human history and think that people are good.
In heaven, we can expect those who love Jesus to be with Him forever, worshiping Him. But unless you repent and change your mind, you will not be there. And that makes me very sad.

A person who loves to trample on others are rarely peaceful with his own family. What are we to expect in heaven ?
I don't think that king left any writings, so it is impossible for us to know what he was thinking.

it only raises the suspicion of God being sneaky and bending people against their free wills
You don't need to be suspicious - the Bible tells us openly and clearly that God does that sometimes.

or that he is not all-knowing and all-powerful and needs making adjustments along the way.
The Bible tells us that God is all-knowing and all-powerful, so it's not telling us that.

Is it a cumulative translation error, or incorrectly added text ?
I do not think there are any variations in the manuscripts, so it's not that. And it's not a mistranslation.
It's just that your attitude needs to change.

I just wish that people would write bible in plain text, not requiring expert re-interpretation.
You think it's unclear because you don't like it. Its meaning is obvious, but I only expect those who love God to accept it.

Peace to you,

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