Tuesday, October 16, 2012

Brian McLaren encounter, post mortem

One Terry has taken issue with my comments related to Brian McLaren. It's instructive to see the back and forth.

For the record, I don't endorse Anonymous' tone or verbiage. That's probably one of the reasons why he's anonymous.

But a few responses since Terry made accusations publicly:

So you're claiming he gave up his confession of the Gospel of Jesus for the sake of popularity?

Either that, or because he loves to contradict Jesus for the sake of contradicting Jesus. I figure I was being charitably by picking the former.

That's a judgement of character for which you have no basis.

As a matter of fact, I have plenty of basis; I didn't want to review 7 years of history in one post.
Let me suggest that it would have been wiser for you to ask me what basis I have rather than to assert I have no basis.

How do you know that's not just what he believes?

B/c he's in a position to know about the critiques of his position and has chosen never to comment on them. He has made no progress in the argument over the course of his popular-book-writing. B/c he says he has read the Bible many times and has come to these conclusions, yet an honest reading of the Bible could never lead someone to the beliefs he holds. It doesn't matter how many times one makes the ridiculous counterargument that "we all have our own interpretations"; that's disingenuous tomfoolery. He resorts to that hand-waving 'argument' ONLY when it comes to the Bible (and not when it comes to any other text, most certainly not his own) because he knows the Bible would never support what he goes around teaching like he knows what he's talking about.
He's a textbook false teacher. Just like the devil wrote it up.

hat if I were to say that you're only saying the things that you do because you want to be well thought of by whatever clique you're in?

The difference is that I have plenty of basis to say what I said, and there is a great deal of evidence against your assertion.

I have no idea if that's true because I don't know you!

True, you don't know me, but if you could point to evidence from my years of writing, you'd be in a different situation. I'm not ignorant of McLaren's public statements.

So he's somehow Satan incarnate?

No, he merely repeats Satan.

You're literally dehumanizing him.

No; sadly, his is quite literally the human condition, devoid of God's grace, given over to Satan to be used as Satan sees fit.

Not sure you can know the entirety of his dishonesty by reading his books or hearing him speak.

I certainly agree - I can't know the ENTIRETY of his dishonesty. I CAN know with sufficient certainty that he is dishonest from consuming his public material, however.

Hopeless lefties? What kind of statement is that?

A conclusion I have drawn based on the wildly irresponsible, foolish, and leftist propaganda that Robin Meyers expresses every time I read anything he says. And he's one of the principal preachers at Mayflower!
Someone who is a member at Mayflower will be continuously exposed to his evil rhetoric; "hopeless lefties" is, again, the most charitable thing I could think of to describe such a person. Other options include "intentional servants of the devil" and "complete idiots". As you can see, "hopeless lefties" is kind by comparison.

For some reason i can't imagine Jesus calling anyone hopeless.

When's the last time you read Matthew 23-24?
Or "Woe to you Bethsaida and Chorazin...!"?
Or John 9's "If you were blind, you would not be condemned, but since you claim you can see, your blindness remains"?
There's a great richness you're missing out on in the Scripture by turning your ear to deceivers like McLaren and Meyers.
Imagine being able to turn to ANY passage of Scripture and to see how it fits into God's grand plan of redemption! Instead of skipping over the parts that make you uncomfy because you can't account for them!

What if it was a room full of people just like you?

By God's grace, I actually take the Scripture seriously, so if it were a room full of people like me, we'd all be laughing at McLaren's idiocies and calling him to repentance to his face like I did.

much less condemn them to hell

The astute reader will note that I condemned no one to Hell.

how can you also claim to know what the entire room thinks about you or your people?

Why do you suppose everyone laughed at the joke I cited?

Your words do nothing but divide

1) Then I'm following in Jesus' footsteps, Who came to bring not peace, but a sword.
2) You're dividing away from me. You apparently think "dividing" is called for in some cases too. And for the record, you're right about that. So your criticism is self-refuting.

Doesn't ring of the ministry of reconciliation for which we've been called.

2 Corinthians 5: 18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

The ministry of reconciliation is, in point of fact, the exact opposite of McLaren's message. He thinks that the basis for the ministry of reconciliation is "cosmic child abuse", and that God's not really angry toward sinners. And that forgiveness of sins refers mostly to horizontal relationships and "cycles of violence". Turn away from this false teaching and embrace what the Bible actually says.

you've made character judgements about someone because you disagree with their theology.

Jesus did too in such places as Matthew 7. With all due respect, I explained above why I do so.

I don't usually get engaged in comments b/c I haven't found it to be a fruitful endeavor.

I have, but I certainly understand when others don't think it merits their time.
I hope we can find time to get together. We'll talk about it offline. Lattés are on me.

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