Continuing from last time...
The "weights on both sides" thing doesn't work. A crime may be rejoiced over by lots of people. Or you may murder a homeless person. Yet God has commanded that we not murder. It's pretty simple.
You might rape and murder an orphan girl who was your mail-order bride from Russia and then dispose of her body. Nobody ever knew.
Yet God knows of this crime, and it was not morally justifiable.
Further, assigning weights to the different factors you named is entirely arbitrary. Who is to say how much weight goes on which side? And what if you forget a certain factor?
Contrast that with the method wherein you merely listen to what God said.
- Are you trying to say because Kermit’s clinic was run horribly all clinics are run like this? -
Of course not.
The point is that MANY abortuaries are poorly-run and do not care much for women. Only money. Gosnell is merely one egregious example, yet why wasn't he shut down way before?
-Is a man killing his wife out of rage a service?-
It could be considered that way, sure. Like if she were up for a promotion that a competitor later got b/c the man's wife was killed.
-There is a murder service, contract killing, that you mentioned in your last response, but that service is not created because murder is illegal-
What does that sentence mean? "that service is not created"? Then why are hits sometimes undertaken?
-Well, if condoms are so cheap then we can afford to supply them to people who can’t afford them like high school students who get an allowance and must choose between gas money or contraceptives.-
Why would we want to do that?
Now YOU are committing the fallacy of composition, only this time for real.
To render ONE service (ie, give someone a condom) is cheap.
Then by your logic, giving 2 million kids 10 condoms each is also cheap.
YOu need to make an argument to the effect that I as a taxpayer am justifiably on the hook to provide some horny kid a condom so he can fornicate.
Why doesn't he just buy one himself?
Perhaps you're a Communist; you think that we should all pay 95% of our income to the state so the state can provide us what we need. This is not justifiable in God's eyes either. This is not a biblical worldview.
-The problem with just say no to sex is that you’re not taking into account peer pressure, the reckless behavior of teenagers due to their still developing frontal lobes; the powerful drive that is sex; and the fact that our culture is obsessed with sex-
None of that changes the fact that I was right - you don't HAVE to have sex.
People are going to have sex, sure, probably. Just like people are going to eat too much McDonalds. there are consequences. It's not my job to ensure you escape all consequences for your actions.
-what evidence do you have that God has ordered us to make abortion illegal?-
Because God commanded us not to murder.
-According to the U.S. Sentencing Commission violent offences accounted for just 2.9% of the total US convictions in 2010. This means that murder, which is a subset of violent crimes, accounted for less than 2.9% of total convictions.-
And how many man-hours and appeals processes were there for those offenses? Taxpayer cost for indigent defense counsel? The cost of running prisons with high security to prevent violent offenders from escaping?
-80,000 men being arrested for soliciting prostitutes in states not named Nevada sounds like a lot.-
Sure does. Yet hookers walk around on the streets in Vegas without much police intervention.
-Does this text capture what I was missing?-
Yes, that's a start.
You'll need to read more, though, before you find the answer to why your challenge was ignorant.
-We also know that perception, the ability to understand what sensory data means doesn’t come until well after birth.-
No, you don't **KNOW** that. This is more guesswork and assumption.
And no, I don't know of a way that one could find out for sure one way or the other. Thus, my position should be the default - we don't kill something if we're not sure if it's human or not. We don't spray playgrounds with machine gun fire just b/c we THINK recess is over.
-2) This is irrelevant to your choice.-
LOL, so whether God commands us not to murder is irrelevant?
You want to know why I warned you about God's judgment? Exhibit A. Your worldview is profoundly unbiblical. Why in the world would anyone think you love Jesus first and foremost, and have repented of all your sin and idolatrous thinking, with comments like these?
-You wouldn’t be moving around so well after your foot was smashed.-
Crud, you're right. I guess we should put all handicapped people to death. They'll never experience another minute of joy or glorify God in any way after their injury.
-You had your brief time in your mother’s comfortable womb and then you died. It’s just a much shorter version of option B minus the beatings and having your children taken from you.-
Interesting - you can imagine being put to death as a preborn child? Based on what experience, exactly?
Yeah, you're blowing hot air. YOu have no idea what it would be like, and so you're in no position to tell anyone about such a comparison.
- Isn’t there a choice between war which is an evil or letting Hitler take over the world which would be a greater evil?-
I don't grant that the mere fact of engaging in war is evil, as a matter of fact. You need to find a different analogy or prove from the Scripture that undertaking war is necessarily evil.
-Having a more nuanced view about the abortion debate is not a sin-
Now you're just trying to explain your sin away. That may work with some, but it doesn't work with me and it certainly won't with Jesus. Your view is not nuanced. You think murdering babies is a merciful and good thing to do.
- God gave me the ability to see the world in more than just black and white absolutes for a reason.-
You may not be aware that our faculties can be used for good or evil.
-God told you that I’m not a Christian?-
No, you told me.
- According to you almost everybody is going to hell-
You don't know anything about me. Shame on you for putting words in my mouth, you bigot.
-What part of the Gospel includes needing to believe in a total ban on abortion? -
The Epistle of James makes it clear that a regenerate heart produces works in keeping with repentance. THat would include a heart that doesn't say, for example, that God's command on a given issue doesn't matter.
-This only abolitionists go to heaven clause is just something that you’ve made up.-
No, it's something YOU made up. I have never said it, and I don't believe it.
-I’m not murdering anyone.-
I didn't say you were. I said you don't care if other people murder.
-All I’m saying is that we should focus our efforts on trying to prevent unwanted pregnancies through education, -
Now you're retreating and trying to distract. THat is NOT all you've been saying.
-Hopefully, one day these facilities can be shut down because no one wants to use them anymore.-
Oh, right, and you're working SO VERY HARD toward that end. Defending aborticians and all, making excuses, saying God's command doesn't matter. Go ahead, give yourself a solid pat on the back.
-I’m keeping it in my mine because I think it’s beautiful story about mercy and forgiveness, and I think that it’s exemplary of the awesomeness of Jesus.-
Wow, what a solid argument. You're keeping it in because you like it.
-2) Calling abortion sin is fine, but the question is, is there mercy for women who repent? Is there mercy for abortion providers who repent? I think there is.-
Ummmm, abortion providers aren't repenting, by and large. Notice that? Instead, they're lying to women and making $millions.
Yes, there is mercy for those who repent. And they won't repent unless they're shown that what they've done is a sin against God.
-3) Do you think that Jesus was patting the woman caught in adultery on the back for her adultery? Do you think that Jesus is a big fan of adultery?-
No, I sure don't. That's a great point, Keith. Maybe you should take it to heart.
-4) Really, Rhology, I just don’t know; I’m not sure what you would do.-
LOL Let me review for you.
1) I am making arguments that abortion should be abolished. You know, arguments. Using words. Mostly on the Internet.
2) I also do public agitation, trying to convince people. You know, convince. Using words.
3) You come in and draw the analogy to stoning.
4) Because I'm using words.
5) I mock the idea that words are analogous to stoning.
6) You completely miss the point.
7) Which brings us to the present.
It's idiotic to compare what abolitionists are doing to stoning. Just foolishness.
You said it right earlier - God gave you a brain. Engage it, yeah?
-Alcohol and guns are involved in the deaths of millions of people. Do you support banning those things too?-
So are cheeseburgers and cigarettes and cars.
Abortion is the direct action that results in death of an innocent. This wouldn't be so complicated for you if you weren't such a dogged abortion apologist.
- Wanting to end abortion is a good thing. -
This is the first time you've given any indication you think so. that should trouble you.
-On the other hand, I’m disturbed by the short sighted obsession with ending it all costs. -
Transfer this criticism about immediatism to slavery, rape, or murder. Then we'll talk.
-Like Ahab you don’t see the dangers associated with realizing your goal. You don’t care if the ship sinks as long as you kill your white whale.-
Do yourself a favor and don't pray or say things like that.
Proverbs 28:9 - He who turns away his ear from listening to the law; even his prayer is an abomination.