Friday, October 26, 2012

If you can't join 'em, make weird arguments, Part 1

One JW Wartick has contracted the abolition bug and we're glad to have him on board.

His declaration of abolition has drawn a few criticisms, and I decided to jump in and deal with them in the combox.


The health of the mother is very rarely a concern in real life abortions. And you should say her LIFE; her health is affected, there’s no question. But just b/c someone adversely affects one’s HEALTH, one is not justified in killing him.
See the Abolitionist FAQ – it deals with this issue in detail.
It also deals with the “back alley abortion” canard.
If prohibitions against rape and slavery don’t prevent all rapes or enslaving, I suppose we should just legalise those activities, yes? And murder, since people still murder? You need to address this issue, badly.
I may not be able to tell you with certainty what the legal and judicial implications will be, but the nation faced the same when slavery was abolished. It was still necessary and justified to abolish it.
It is also irrelevant to the actual issue that abortion murders tiny children.

But Keith, we HAVE thought through all that stuff. Always glad to get more sharpening, of course, but to say we haven’t thought a lot about it is ignorant.
when we compare abolishing abortion the consequences are that the health of women who will seek abortions regardless of their legality could be compromised by ill-trained abortion practitioners.
Myth mixed with speculation on your part, and dealt with in our FAQ. Why not interact with what we’ve already said on that issue?
An abortion could be performed in an unclean bathroom by someone who has gotten some procedures from the Internet.
You have an overly rosy view of how many abortuaries are run TODAY. Naive.
The befit of abolishing abortion is that some women may not seek abortions and children could be saved.
AND…the government is not legalising and encouraging the systematic murder of its own children, thus spitting in God’s face all the time. That is very important. Nations that spit in God’s face all the time don’t typically last long.
However, we know that women in countries where abortion is illegal do still get abortions.
Just like slavery still exists.
Just like rape and murder still exist despite their being illegal.
We also know that even though prostitution is illegal it still practiced around the country
Is it MORE or LESS widespread where it is legal (Las Vegas) than where it is illegal (Oklahoma City)?
a comparison can be seen in greater detail when we look at how difficult it would be to enforce anti-abortion laws
Granted, it might be difficult to enforce them in one sense. But if you shut down the abortuaries and prosecute aborticians, you’ve made a lot of progress already.
In summation we see that there is no comparison between slavery and abortion
Um, you didn’t even address our central points about that comparison.
Since we know that abortions will continue regardless of their legality
1) No, we don’t KNOW that. That’s just your speculation.
2) Just b/c they may continue is no good reason to curtail abolition.
3) Abolitionists are out to change the WORLDVIEW that leads to abortion, not merely stop the behavior itself. Change the society, you change people’s thinking it’s OK.
we should focus our efforts and resources on reducing unwanted pregnancies
We do both. Join us instead of sniping from a distance.
What are the negative consequences of making rape illegal?
Easy – people will rape in private locations and in home invasions, etc, rather than out in the open.
I don’t see any reason to not make rape illegal since it harms people
Abortion murders people.
you and Abolish Human Abortion are asking the wrong question.
Coming from a guy who pretends he refuted our argument without even addressing the most central points and who has used self-refuting arguments, this assertion hardly worries me.
A woman who dies because of a botched illegal abortion just makes a bad situation even worse. Not only does the embryo/fetus die, but the mother does too. It’s just plain senseless.
True. It would be far better if the woman didn’t go find some dingy corner to seek a surgical operation. That’s not on us.

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