Sunday, February 24, 2013

In which I am revealed to be a pervert, an idiot, a moron, and unregenerate

It remains unclear, however, whether I should repent of any of that.


  • I come across this statement now and then written to unbelievers: "You need to ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins." Interesting. I thought for sure He already did that 2000 years ago and waited for me to believe it. Am I missing something?
    Like ·  · 
    • 5 people like this.
    • Dave O'Brien No, but anyone who says that is probably missing Jesus.
    • Rho Logy Whether the sins are forgiven or not, lost people will not receive any benefit from forgiveness unless they repent and believe. That's the point, really.
    • Dave O'Brien Yep, and what they are repenting from is unbelief.
    • Rho Logy And the rest of their sin. We all have lots of sin!  Unbelief is merely one of many.
    • Dave O'Brien Nobody repents of their sins. Jesus died for our sins, we don't get to repent from them. When we receive Him, we receive forgiveness of our sins.
    • Rho Logy Sure they repent. Jesus said to - Mark 1:15.
    • Rho Logy When we receive Him (which repentance is part of), we receive forgiveness of sins.
    • Dave O'Brien Rho, your first post concerning Mark 1:15, Jesus says nothing about repenting from sins (read it again). Your second point, affirms what I said. Repentance is turning from unbelief to belief. People who believe they must repent from their sins, deny that Jesus died for them. It is not possible to have it both ways.
    • Rho Logy Please prove biblically that repentance = turning ONLY from unbelief to belief. 
      Also, since unbelief is sin, as you said, I don't see why what I said is incorrect.
    • Rho Logy Matthew 3:8
      Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance

      What does that mean?
    • Rho Logy Luke 3:3
      And he came into all the district around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins

      ...of sin***S***

      Unbelief is more than one sin?
    • Dave O'Brien You want me to tell you what the Gospel is? Jesus died for our sins and was raised for our justification. All men were dead because of sin, and in need of life. men are saved by receiving His life. In His life we have redemption, the forgiveness of our sins. Faith comes by hearing the message of the Gospel. Men are saved by receiving His life, not by repenting of their sins. You are the one in opposition to the Gospel, not me. You need to "prove" your claims, and you will be searching forever, because there is no verse that says that men are saved by repenting from their sins. Not a single one.
    • Rho Logy \\Men are saved by receiving His life, not by repenting of their sins\\

      It's both, actually. 

      \\You are the one in opposition to the Gospel, not me.\\

      Whatever. 

      \\You need to "prove" your claims\\

      I cited a few texts for you to reply to.

      \\ because there is no verse that says that men are saved by repenting from their sins. \\

      Except those two.
    • Dave O'Brien I don't believe you have the capacity to comprehend what you are reading. In neither passage does it say anything about repenting from sins. In Matthew, Jesus is speaking of communicating the truth concerning who He is. They repented from unbelief, and they are to continue bearing the fruit of that.

      In Luke, it says that forgiveness follows repentance. Logically, if they repented from their sins, there would be no need for forgiveness of them. Jesus died for our sins. You don't like that, but that is the truth.
    • Elly McMashehu One who has not repented of their sins has not interest in the Savior who died to pay for their sins. If I was having an adulterous relationship and told my husband that he should accept and forgive me but that I would not repent (apoligize & turn from) the sin of adultery, it would be ludicrous to think that he should accept and forgive me - and it would show that I truly had no contrition for my sin against him (or God). Additionally, it is not we who need to receive Jesus, it is Jesus who needs to receive and accept us; it is the Holy God of this universe who has been sinned against - we have shaken our fist at Him. He is not sitting and waiting for us to accept Him, He has "commanded all men everywhere to repent." He will accept us when we flee to Him in repentance & faith in Him alone (and He alone can grant us the ability to repent & believe).
    • Dave O'Brien It's not both. That would be a contradiction. Do you understand what repentance is? Repentance means to completely cease from doing one thing in thought and deed and turn completely the other direction and begin doing the opposite. You've never done that, nor can you.
    • Dave O'Brien I see Elly, you believe in a works based gospel (which Paul called "another gospel"). You claim that unless you stop "sinning" you are not saved. Good luck with that.
    • Elly McMashehu Repentance is turning from sin by God's enabling grace, I have NO ability in myself to turn from sin. And I absolutely still sin (ask my kids or my husband), but I now hate the sin I used to love, and I strive towards holiness by the power of the Holy Spirit. I sin all the time, but it is with great grief to my soul that I sin, and the Lord grants me a repentant heart on an ongoing basis. Repentance is a gift from God, so I can take NO credit for it. Psalm 51:17 "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, A broken and a contrite heart—These, O God, You will not despise."
    • Elly McMashehu Acts 5:31
      2 Timothy 2:25
      I'm baffled why a born again Christian would resist that they must repent for the sins for which Christ died. Repentance is not sinless perfection, it is a turning from sin (which will not be made perfect until we get to heaven).
      (Okay turning computer off now, so I'm not ignoring, just won't be online)
    • Rho Logy \\They repented from unbelief, and they are to continue bearing the fruit of that.\\

      Point that out in the text, please. 

      \\ Logically, if they repented from their sins, there would be no need for forgiveness of them. \\

      **OR** what I'm saying is true. 
      Yeah. 
      Thanks.
    • Dave O'Brien Elly, you can't have it both ways. Think about what you are saying. You cannot both say that Jesus fully propitiated the Father through His "once for all" sacrifice, and the claim that you must make your own sacrifice for sin.

      John 1:12
      But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name

      Colossians 2:6
      Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him
    • Rho Logy \\ Jesus died for our sins. You don't like that, but that is the truth.\\

      Um, what in the world would lead you to the conclusion that I don't like that Jesus died for our sins?
      I do believe that. 

      \\the claim that you must make your own sacrifice for sin.\\

      Who said that?
      You are not acting honorably, putting words in our mouths, calling us the equivalent of unregenerate. We have not done that. You have. You should repent of that. We are fellow Christians.
    • Dave O'Brien What you are saying is a lie, Rho. It is a false gospel of works based, man-centered, righteousness. You have never believed the Gospel.
    • Rho Logy K thanks for your opinion which is uninformed by the texts I cited.
    • Dave O'Brien It's not an "opinion", it's the Gospel, which you have never believed. The texts you cited prove what I said and destroy your theory. You deny that Jesus died for your sins, and instead you teach that men are to "repent" from them. That is a false, anti-Christ message.
    • Rho Logy \\You deny that Jesus died for your sins\\

      ???????????
    • Donna Ballentine Re: confession...I cannot find one passage written by the apostle Paul instructing us to confess our sins. Paul's meassage is a confession of faith: "Confess Jesus Christ is Lord..."(Phil 2:11), "...confess the Lord Jesus, believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, and thou shalt be saved." (Rom 10:9)
    • Rho Logy 1 John 1:9, Rev 2:5 and 16, Acts 3:19, etc
    • Donna Ballentine The apostle Paul?
    • Dave O'Brien Acts 3:19
      "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord".

      Rho has major reading and comprehension issues. This verse says nothing about repenting from sins.
    • Scott Evans That's great you can quote Scripture, Rho, so now work on taking the next step and learn how, and do, what Paul taught in 2 Timothy 2:15.
    • Rho Logy Golly, thanks, I'll sure try.
    • Scott Evans That sounds like sarcasm to me.
    • Rho Logy You understood that better than Dave has understood me today.
    • Scott Evans Rho, your quoting 1 John, Revelation 2:5, and Acts 3 to make your point on the subject in this thread shows you do not know how to rightly divide the word of God. I hope you will have the humility to realize that fact and find out exactly what that means, my friend.
    • Rho Logy Unless you're willing to tell me right here and how that Dave has gone way over the top in his wild-eyed mouth-foaming dismissal of my profession of faith b/c he thinks that repentance of sin is unnecessary for justification, I have no interest in wasting my time with you here.
    • Rho Logy So, the ball is in your court.
    • Scott Evans I was afraid of an angry, prideful response like that, and I'm saddened by it. Have it your way.
    • Rho Logy LOL kthx
    • Rho Logy Scott, is it possible for two saved, regenerate Christians to disagree on a biblical issue in good conscience?
    • Rho Logy Also, are you saying that I need to repent of
      1) being angry over this
      2) being prideful
      3) thinking that one must repent of one's sins to be justified? 

      If not, why bring it up?
      If so, why?
    • Donna Ballentine Jesus Christ, during His earthly ministry taught the 12 the gospel, which was of prophecy revealed throughout scripture.. The risen Christ taught Paul a gospel, which had been kept hidden. Paul calls it "my gospel". He calls it a "mystery". Something new was revealed to Paul. James writes, "faith without works is dead." Paul - "faith requires no works" Jesus instructs the 12 to forgive or they won't be forgiven. Paul - "Forgive, as the Father has forgiven you." (There are many more) Scott Evans is right. When we rightly divide these differences, we see things differently. And, it's joyous.
    • Donna Ballentine Consider Peter and his meeting with Cornelius (Acts 10) He resists the risen Lord twice. He goes to Cornelius, saying it is un-lawful for him to be here. The people with Peter are astonished, and, when Peter tells the other apostles, they're astonished. He has to explain it to them. Expain what? What the risen Christ has revealed to Paul (Acts 9) Something never revealed before. Now Gentiles would no longer have to come to God through the nation of Israel. Which was different than prophecy and Christ's earthly ministry.
    • Dave O'Brien Rho... If you think repenting of sins is necessary to be saved, you believe in another gospel. That is exactly what Paul would say to you, and why I say it to you. This should concern you, but it doesn't, because you are more willing to hold on to your pet theory, than to accept the truth. 

      It is impossible for anyone to believe that you must repent from your sins, and also claim that Jesus died for them. That is two completely different ways of dealing with the issue of sin. It is the same as saying that Jesus died for my sins, and I also have this goat here that I will be sacrificing for my sins. Two different methods for dealing with sin. Very simple. Which way will you choose?
    • Rho Logy \\If you think repenting of sins is necessary to be saved, you believe in another gospel.\\

      Should I repent of thinking that repenting of sins is necessary to be saved? 
      If so, why?

      \\This should concern you\\

      Should I repent of my lack of concern?

      \\you are more willing to hold on to your pet theory, than to accept the truth.\|

      Should I repent of preferring my pet theory to the truth?

      \\Which way will you choose?\\

      If I choose wrong, should I repent of that? 
      If so, why?
      Friday at 3:41pm · Edited · Like · 1
    • Dave O'Brien Yes to all, Rho, because you are still walking in unbelief, of which you have never repented. If you had repented, you would not currently believe in your system of repentance. You would believe the Gospel, which you currently do not believe. Very simple.
    • Rho Logy I'm supposed to repent of sin?
    • Dave O'Brien You are supposed to repent of unbelief. John 16:8-9
    • Rho Logy ME: Should I repent of preferring my pet theory to the truth?
      YOU: Yes to all, Rho

      Is preferring my pet theory to the truth sin?
    • Dave O'Brien It is unbelief, Rho. Obviously, you don't take the Gospel seriously. It is no wonder you put your confidence in you and what you do, rather than in Christ and His finished work.
    • Scott Evans Rho, do you know why Paul withstood Peter to his face?
    • Elly McMashehu Repentance is a gift from God, we have NO ability to repent without His enabling. It is NOT a work of man. I'm really shocked and grieved at this thread. All the verses provided about repentance are being completely ignored, and I can't figure out why. Your view of sin - and the need to repent of it (remember, repentance is NOT sinless perfection) - says *much* of your esteem of Christ's sacrifice on behalf of those who flee to Him.
    • Dave O'Brien No Elly, you are greatly deceived. The verses are not "ignored", but correctly exegeted as to what they actually say. They DO NOT say that believers repent of their sins. What they do say is that those who repent of unbelief will receive forgiveness of their sins. BIG difference.

      Reformed theology is an anti-Christ cult. They have a different Jesus. They have a Jesus who did not die for the sins of all men, nor for all sins of all men. Their Jesus did not satisfy the Father. His shed blood was insufficient.
    • Elly McMashehu Could you please define repentance?
    • Dave O'Brien A change of mind or behavior.
    • Elly McMashehu So if a person has saving faith in Jesus Christ, are you saying that they will not change their mind about sin and will cease from their pursuit of sinful behavior? I'm just trying to figure out if this is a matter of semantics.
    • Dave O'Brien If a person has saving faith in Christ, they have obeyed the Gospel in which the righteousness of God is revealed Rom 1:16-17. They know that they are unrighteous, and in need of God's righteousness, which can only come as a gift Rom 5:17. Having received the gift of righteousness, they are no longer unrighteous, nor can they be. Why? Because we are no longer under the Law which proved us as sinners, and are now under grace which proves our righteousness. God no longer takes our sin into account 2 Cor 5:19. We are no longer sinners, but saints. We are the righteousness of God in Christ 2 Cor 5:21. In Him we have been made complete Col 2:10, and we are perfected forever Heb 10:14. Paul knew full well that the Law would expose the indwelling sin in his flesh (Romans 7), and that if any of us examine ourselves according to the flesh we will find coveting of every kind. All we can produce, in light of the Law, are the deeds of the flesh Gal 5:19-21, and all we can practice is the evil we do not wish (Rom 7). That is why there is no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Rom 8:1.

      To change your mind about your behavior is not repenting from sins. Jesus died for our sins (all of them) and God no longer take our sins into account. We change our minds (repent) from our behavior because it is profitable. 1 Cor 6:12.
    • Rho Logy \\It is unbelief, Rho\\

      IS IT SIN? 
      Please, just answer the question.

      Then answer this, since we both know it is sin: 
      Why must one repent of THAT sin but not ALL THE REST of the sins one has committed?
    • Rho Logy \\ do you know why Paul withstood Peter to his face?\\

      B/c he was not acting like the Gospel is true. He was acting like there is more to the Gospel than faith and repentance.
    • Rho Logy \\ Their Jesus did not satisfy the Father. His shed blood was insufficient.\\

      Shrug. That's just entirely false. It may be what you think, but you think wrong. Sorry.
    • Dave O'Brien No, Rho, reformed theology teaches that Jesus only died for some men and their sins, not all men and all sin. Either you have no idea what Calvinism teaches, or you are still wallowing in self-denial.
    • Rho Logy \\ reformed theology teaches that Jesus only died for some men and their sins, not all men and all sin.\\

      Yes, I know that. But you said:
      \\Their Jesus did not satisfy the Father. His shed blood was insufficient.\\

      Deal with THAT please, because it's a lie. Or do you mean Jesus did not satisfy the Father about His wrath against ALL sin?
      Thing is, you don't believe that either, b/c you said unbelief is a sin, and I presume you think that those who are guilty of it and die in unbelief will go to Hell, which is undeniably the wrath of God.

      Your theology is a mess. But at least you're entertaining.
    • Dave O'Brien Are you a complete idiot? I was talking about what reformed theology believes, not what I believe. Learn to read you moron. You don't know Jesus from Adam, you worthless little twerp.

      My quote was:

      "THEY (Calvinists) have a Jesus who did not die for
       the sins of all men, nor for all sins of all men. THEIR (Calvinists) Jesus did not satisfy the Father. His (the Jesus of Calvinism) shed blood was insufficient".

      Everything I said above is TRUE concerning the false "Jesus" of Calvinism. They deny that Jesus died for the sins of all men, and they deny that Jesus died for all sins. They deny that the death of Jesus propitiated the Father for all sins. They deny that the blood of Jesus was sufficient for all sins for all men. 

      There is only One Jesus who died, and THAT Jesus died for ALL sins, of ALL men, for ALL time - It Is Finished. YOU (Rho), have never believed in the Jesus of the Bible. You have a false Jesus, and a false gospel. You worship a goat god, whose blood is inferior.
      Friday at 11:13pm · Edited · Like · 1
    • Elly McMashehu Wow, "idiot" and "moron" and "twerp"? Speechless.
    • Dave O'Brien Instead of dealing with the truth, Elly, you prefer to focus on how I referred to the idiot. Just like the Pharisees before you, whom Jesus called "children of the devil" and "fools", they also rejected the truth and took offense at the names Jesus called them. You need to take a serious look at what you believe, because what you believe is not what the Bible teaches.
      Friday at 11:16pm · Edited · Like · 1
    • Elly McMashehu Dave, I have never known someone who has been born again call someone else an idiot, twerp, and moron without repenting immediately. I'm grieved by this thread, andScott, I'm grieved by your "like" of Dave's hateful speech. I'm not on FB for this ungodly behavior, so I'm going to have to unfriend. 1 John 4:20-21 "If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also."
    • Scott Evans Unfriending isn't a very loving thing to do, Elly.
    • Elly McMashehu Scott, we've been told we're heretics and worse here, and you've "Like"d it. I'm on FB for encouragement in the faith, not for ungodly and unloving blasts from those who profess to be submitted to Christ.
    • Elly McMashehu I *rarely* unfriend, and will refrain - if you disassociate from what Dave has said here.
    • Scott Evans Threatening isn't very loving either, Elly. Do you even know why Dave became so frustrated with Rho? Rho is firing back at Dave like a junior high kid would. Dave told what the beliefs of reformed theology are and Rho attributed it to what Dave believes! Rho doesn't even care enough to think through Dave's posts. I guess you'd unfriend Jesus, too, after he said to Peter, "But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” How unloving of Him!
    • Dave O'Brien Elly, simple questions that you must answer for yourself. 

      Did Jesus love the Pharisees? Yes or No?
      Did Paul love the Judaizers? Elymas? Yes or No?

      “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves." Matt 23:15

      "You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold?" Matt 23:17

      "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?" Matt 23:33

      "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father." John 8:44

      "But Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze on him, and said, “You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord?" Acts 13:9-10

      "I wish the people who are bothering you would castrate themselves!" Gal 5:12

      "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed". Gal 1:8 

      "Accursed" without hope of being redeemed.

      Would you rather have Rho eternally separated from God because he believes in "another gospel"? I wouldn't. I'd rather he examine himself to see if he is in the faith, and to repent in his unbelief concerning who Jesus is and what He fully accomplished on the cross. I want the same for you.

      Apparently you are more concerned with me calling an idiot an "idiot", then you are about his soul?

      Who then is the one who truly loves him?
    • Dave O'Brien It's amazing Scott how many people will ignore the truth because they are personally offended by it. That's exactly what the Jews did with Jesus.
    • Rho Logy \\ Rho is firing back at Dave like a junior high kid would.\\

      LOL no, not really. Let the reader judge who instigated the tussle, who has consistently degraded the tone of the discussion, and who is the one who accused the other of being unregenerate. 

      Hint: His name rhymes with Slave O'Lyin.
    • Rho Logy DAVE AND SCOTT: ANSWER MY QUESTIONS PLEASE. 
      Stop playing your little games. Answer my questions.

      You said:
      \\Their Jesus did not satisfy the Father. His shed blood was insufficient.\\


      Deal with THAT please, because it's a lie. Or do you mean Jesus did not satisfy the Father about His wrath against ALL sin?
      Thing is, you don't believe that either, b/c you said unbelief is a sin, and I presume you think that those who are guilty of it and die in unbelief will go to Hell, which is undeniably the wrath of God.

      \\It is unbelief, Rho\\

      IS IT SIN? 
      Please, just answer the question.

      Then answer this, since we both know it is sin: 
      Why must one repent of THAT sin but not ALL THE REST of the sins one has committed?
    • Dave O'Brien Dear Rho the pervert, YOU are the liar. I answered that question for YOU completely 13 posts back. Learn to read moron.
    • Rho Logy Repent of your evil speech and thoughts that would lead you to treat me this way. 
      Shame on you, Scott Evans, if you should fail to ask your friend to repent for this. It is not loving to overlook sin in a brother; it is hatred. James 5:19-20. 

      I'm out.
    • Dave O'Brien "Evil speech"? LOL You are the one who tells lies, slanders those who tell you the truth, and then accuse me of "evil speech". You're lost.
    • Scott Evans Wow, Rho. Come on. When Dave said, "Their Jesus did not satisfy the Father. His shed blood was insufficient," he was saying what reformed theology believes, not what Dave, himself, believes. Why can't you see that? 

      "And he brought them out and said
      , “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” - Acts 16:30-31. I guess Paul and Silas just forgot to tell the Phillipian jailer the part about turning away from his sins. 

      I don't know if unbelief in the finished work of Jesus Christ is considered a sin or not. I'd like to see the biblical evidence of the answer. But if unbelief is a sin, it's the ONLY sin that will send someone to hell because Jesus died for all of our sins. Jesus won't cast anyone into hell who believes in His finished work. "And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." - Romans 11:6. It's not grace plus works. That's what Catholics believe. It's grace alone.

5 comments:

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

Man, oh man. This was just horrible. I feel sorry for you and Elly. The only positive I can think of is that it gives you both a greater appreciation of how difficult it is to communicate with another person who's seeminly intent on misunderstanding you.

If there's a better example of putting pearls before swine, I'd like to see it. This is basic Bible 101. I have no idea if they're regenerate, and I surely hope they are despite their grievous lack of manners, but your interlocutors have behaved quite badly. Of course they think you deserve it, but I think all you can do at this point is to give it over to God. You've made your case and if they disagree, there's nothing more to pursue.

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

"In which I am revealed to be a pervert, an idiot, a moron, and unregenerate....
It remains unclear, however, whether I should repent of any of that."


Hey! Irony is not always funny or amusing, you sarcastic scoffer of self-refuting illogic!

Rhology said...

Irony is not always funny or amusing, you sarcastic scoffer of self-refuting illogic!


:`-(

Paul Reed said...

Interesting exchange! The other side is so messed up.

You know I always imagine the theme song for this blog to be the song "Vibeology" from Paula Abdul. Except instead of "vibeology" one says "rhoblogy"

Rhology said...

Vibeology has promise. :-)